This is not an all or nothing situation like VHS vs. betaMAX or HD-DVD vs. Blu-Ray.
Clear and Sprint are building out a 4G data network to serve their customers using a viable technology that can easily be upgraded (or switched to LTE with minimal effort, for that matter...).
What exactly is the issue here?
Thanks for voicing your opinion, but I think the conclusions you are making are a bit absurd.
That is, unless you are an insider at any of the companies involved and know for sure that the comments made by Alcatel-Lucent's COO will negatively impact Sprint (please let us know if that is the case).
I'll continue to be excited for 4G phones on Sprint in 2010...
wafowler4 wrote:
This is not an all or nothing situation like VHS vs. betaMAX or HD-DVD vs. Blu-Ray.
Clear and Sprint are building out a 4G data network to serve their customers using a viable technology that can easily be upgraded (or switched to LTE with minimal effort, for that matter...).
What exactly is the issue here?
Thanks for voicing your opinion, but I think the conclusions you are making are a bit absurd.
That is, unless you are an insider at any of the companies involved and know for sure that the comments made by Alcatel-Lucent's COO will negatively impact Sprint (please let us know if that is the case).
I'll continue to be excited for 4G phones on Sprint in 2010...
First of all, let's get this right. WiMAX is NOT a 4G network, no matter how much Sprint tries to claim that it is. PERIOD! Secondly, 4G has not even been defined yet, but it appears that LTE will fall into that 4G category (4G so far appears to be defined by software based antenna as opposed to hardware based). Third, while the network may be more or less easily convertible from WiMAX to LTE, the customer-based devices will not be. So, why would a customer who uses a WiMAX datacard suddenly want to stick with Clearwire (or Sprint) if/when the company opts to dump WiMAX and instead use LTE? The answer is, the customer won't bother. They'll simply defect to Verizon, AT&T, and T-Mobile, like they're already doing. Fourth, have you actually looked at the stock prices for SprintNextel and Clearwire? Both are in the toilet simply because of poor execution and management. Nothing new there. Fifth, it's already a FACT that SprintNextel and Clearwire are having supplier problems. Alcatel-Lucent already made their stand. Sony Ericsson was the first, and Nokia followed. So, who's left? Motorola, Samsung, and Cisco (maybe). BTW, LG is already now firmly in the LTE camp...they've also given up on WiMAX.
So, the point is that it's not merely MY OPINION that WiMAX is dead. As I've said before, I like WiMAX and I want to see it succeed. However, given how inept Sprint management is, and how slowly Clearwire is building out the WiMAX network, it leaves a GREAT DEAL to be desired.
To conclude, Sprint has NO 4G network. Clearwire has NO 4G network. But hey, why should I burst your pipedream.
Okay... "I'll look forward to Sprint's next generation wireless data network..."
You are flipping out about how things are positioned because the rest of your case is irrelevant...I've asked several serious and related questions of you and you are unable to answer them.
Instead you bring up ridiculous scenarios about customers getting burned if/when Sprint/Clear dumps WiMAX...which is totally irrelevant and not helpful.
I guess that it is only fair that you stifle actual, meaningful conversation about the adoption of new wireless internet technology on your own thread. I'll let you babble on to yourself...
:-)
VorlessDarkChaos wrote:
quasijedi it is not officaial just because you say so.
I'll second that!
Well, how's this for as official as official can get here in the US without LTE actually having launched yet:
http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/08/verizon-plays-the-obvious-card-its-4g-trials-are-faster-than-3g/
Hmmm...so to sum up...
Today, the company is reporting that engineers have managed to coax up to 40-50Mbps down and 20-25Mbps up out of its test networks currently deployed in Boston and Seattle -- not what we can expect in a real-world environment where you're on a train surrounded by obstacles and other people trying to use the network, but a pretty nice, round set of numbers nonetheless. In actual usage, they're reporting more down-to-Earth figures of 5-12Mbps down (count on 5) and 2-5Mbps up (count on 2), which still bests EV-DO Rev. A by a healthy margin.
So, given the level that Verizon is at with LTE (similar to Sprint with WiMAX at this time 2 years ago), and given that Verizon is claiming that LTE speeds are up to what Sprint's 4G speeds were last year, then this means that LTE will trump WiMAX out of the box next year. And that's WITH all of the WiMAX upgrades that Clearwire has stated it will do (aka none).
And that's not MY opinion...that's what has been stated by the respective companies.
More proof? Here ya go:
http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/11/t-mobile-webconnect-rocket-available-march-14-already-blowing-m/
Notice what the author noted:
"Additionally, the kids at Mobile Burn got their hands on a unit for a review and were generally quite impressed with consistent download speeds ranging from 1780Kbps to 2797Kbps "on a couple of [DSLreports.com] East Coast servers." ****, after moving to a location with "prime, perfect signal (-51dbm)" things picked up considerably, with, on average, 6480Kbps downloads and 2160Kbps uploads. Not bad, eh?"
Now look at the numbers that T-Mobile's 3G network produced in the REAL WORLD versus WiMAX's real world numbers? Looks like a mere 3G network offers both at least comparable, let alone faster, UPLOAD AND DOWNLOAD speeds. So what is the point of WiMAX when even lowly T-Mobile can offer faster using not so new technology?
The way Sprint operates, and how they're trying to influence Clearwire, I'd say this 4G speed race is over...and the winner will ultimately probably be AT&T because they can offer LTE-like speeds without having to invest in LTE yet...AND they will be able to piggyback onto Verizon's LTE network for roaming until they get their own network up to offer LTE. Granted, Verizon will be investing heavily, but that CDMA network that Verizon is on is going to hinder any serious long-term investment and deployment (unless they quickly go from CDMA to LTE-only...and I don't see that happening. T-Mobile could win, but they're simply too small compared to the other two.
In the end, Sprint (and WiMAX) loses.
You know what, there CELL PHONES! Your Cell Phone is not your LIFE and i think you can go without having INTERNET on your phone or having FAST Internet on your phone!
Is life really gonna end because Sprint is choosing a SLOWER tech? Sad, very sad!
mystikblue9 wrote:
You know what, there CELL PHONES! Your Cell Phone is not your LIFE and i think you can go without having INTERNET on your phone or having FAST Internet on your phone!
Is life really gonna end because Sprint is choosing a SLOWER tech? Sad, very sad!
I guess it all depends on how you see things. Mr. Hesse believes that the world is heading towards a data-centric standard. That would, in turn, translate into the fastest network wins. As such, that would mean that iDEN subs that have been leaving are doing so ONLY because the iDEN network is so slow.
However, IF that were the case, you'd have thought that we'd have seen a huge up-tick in the Sprint CDMA post-paid additions side. We haven't. So it obviously has little to nothing to do with data speed entirely. It has to do more with the fact that customers view anything and everything Sprint as a negative.
And I don't see that changing because Clearwire is offering WiMAX...after all, the Sprint name will still be affiliated with it. And unless and until Sprint goes away, WiMAX (or at least Clearwire) won't take off either.
Wouldn't a provider want to move to a global standard? It seems that WiMAX is not getting the support for globalization like LTE. I read that CISCO has stopped support of WiMAX. I believe that is major problem for WiMAX businesses. In addition, the use of CDMA outside of North America is very limited. It seems like Sprint has chosen two technologies with low ceilings.
In addition, I think there are many other variables other than speed that are involved with success. But SPEED appears to account for much of the variance. I also would imagine that world standards would also be a factor. So I concur that At&t has the upper hand.
Maybe Sprint should have thought out its future plans before locking into WiMAX. My suggestion is sell the iDEN network and use that money to find a way to find a true difference-maker. Then Maybe us iDEN users will also benefit by having the buyer invest money into our neglected network.
My 2 cents
AFDOC
That's actually one interesting observation. Sprint sold itself on the idea that Qualcomm Kool-Aid that CDMA is the future. It obvious has not been. The world has gone to GSM, and now HSPA/HSPA+. Ultimately, it will go to LTE as well.
Now, does that mean that WiMAX is not going to be a worldwide standard? No, far from it. WiMAX is deployed in several countries...but all but a few of those countries have little in the form of high speed broadband infrastructure. For example, most of eastern Europe (think Russia, Estonia, Romania, Serbia, etc.), the Middle East, and and some Far East countries (most notable being S. Korea) have already deployed WiMAX. England has already ruled that WiMAX spectrum will be in the 2.5Mhz spectrum (or is it Ghz? I forgot now...not that it matters) band: LTE will have to go to a different spectrum allocation. So, as far as standardizing a signal, Intel has WiMAX designed quite well.
And honestly, WiMAX could develop and become a game changer, even here in the US. In S. Korea, WiMAX (known over there as WiBRO) devices are selling fairly well...at least if you believe what their manufacturers and service providers are claiming. I know early last year, one of Russia's WiMAX providers was going to launch a WiMAX-only handset. So, wireless VoIP via WiMAX (VoMAX) is possible. How well that handset sold though, I have no idea. So, there could be potential upside for WiMAX here in the US. And Clearwire is on record stating that they could easily convert their entire network to work on LTE and dump WiMAX within a few hours/days (if memory serves, it's allegedly merely a software conversion?). The problem though will be for Sprint.
Sprint could sell a bunch of WiMAX-based handsets...and what will those customers do when Clearwire opts to go to LTE? Will they opt to want to stay with Sprint or Clearwire? I doubt it. And that's Sprint's serious Achilles' heel. Sprint needs to really differentiate itself. WiMAX CAN be the way. But it has to do 2 things first.
1. Launch (preferably at nearly the same time)...a CDMA/WiMAX handset as well as an iDEN/WiMAX handset.
2. Change it's brand name from Sprint and/or Nextel to a completely different brand name...maybe Sextel?
Why? Because if VoMAX works (and so far, in Russia, it looks like it does), then the transition from CDMA to WiMAX as well as from iDEN to WiMAX becomes a no brainer. And at that point, you can't call it Sprint b/c you have former Nextel users on the network. And, for the same reason, you can't call the service Nextel because you have a bunch of Sprint users on that WiMAX network. So I say call everyone Sextel, or Clear. Either way works.
As for Cisco no longer supplying WiMAX infrastructure, I didn't see that. And I thought Cisco held a press conference last month to acknowledge that they WERE going to be a WiMAX supplier. Maybe I'm wrong on that though.
Update, sorry if I misrepresented the Cisco news they have stopped making WiMAX base stations but will continue supplying IP core products and Edge products.
http://www.informationweek.com/news/storage/virtualization/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=223200141
AFDOC
http://mobile.engadget.com/2010/03/12/teliasonera-already-upgrading-lte-network-practical-speeds-of/
So...now we're already talking 80Mb/s on the download. So much for WiMAX maxing out at 10Mb/s without updating to 802.16m. Ah well.
LTE is not a software conversion, and ClearWire can not convert their network in a matter of hours or days.
WiMAX is a new ground up network, and while some of it can be overlayed on existing network infrastructre, majority of it has to be built out due to the frequency allocation being so high. WiMAX could be deployed within the current existing spectrum companies hold, but due to the legacy networks using the spectrum for its core services, it would be suicide for the network companies. WiMAX can be overlaid on the existing network infrastructure in major areas where the legacy network towers could act as filler towers between one sole WiMAX tower and another.
LTE on the otherhand, is being deployed in the lower end of the spectrum, thus can be completely overlaid on the existing mobile network, 700Mhz signal travels further then 850 and 1900, and will use the same towers. In rural areas where there is no existing wireless towers, LTE will have to be built from the ground up, but due to the rural nature and lower frequency penetration, less redundant measures like building a few extra towers by network providers MAY be taken causing LTE to provide less uniform service until more demand makes those redundancies neccessary.
WiMAX does have a slight advantage if a conversion to LTE were to take place however, by having the higher frequency - more towers and infrastructure is built out, which means, that LTE could also benefit from being on the WiMAX structures, provided the LTE frequencies are 1900Mhz or less (currently they are).
In terms of ClearWire and Sprint, both companies are committed to WiMAX, but neither have ruled out LTE, and both companies have been privately testing LTE in the event that the WiMAX networks in current operation or being reserved for future operation do not meet market demands and the needs of their consumers.
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