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6/20 - HTC EVO Maintenance Release - Android 2.3 (4.24.651.1)

Master

6/20 - HTC EVO Maintenance Release - Android 2.3 (4.24.651.1)

BRNDN84 wrote:

halcyoncmdr134 wrote:

This represents how Android is designed to work. Large memory-use applications are going to be closed by the OS when the memory is needed elsewhere. If you aren't using your homescreen (i.e. Sense) at the time then it isn't needed and Android will close it to free space for what you are using (in this case Google Earth). When you then close Google Earth, Sense will load back into memory because you are going back to your homescreen. To you it will look like it crashed and is restarting, in actuality it is how the system is designed to work. If Sense did not close out in the background then there wouldn't be enough room for Google Earth to load and you would get an error message, decreased functionality or overall slower speed instead. The only way to fix this is to have more memory in the phone, which in turn brings up the price of the phones, and potentially the physical size of the phone if they can't fit it all in the same configuration.

Depending on whatever else you may have loaded recently Android prioritizes applications in memory. Things you have used more recently are going to be lower on the kill list than things you haven't used for 5 hours. If everything that hasn't been used recently doesn't free up enough space though, it will instead close out something more recent to free the space. This may be Sense itself depending on whatever else you have going. You also have things like services that run cosntantly in the background that actually help in this case because the app doesn;t need to be open for it. Email, Facebook, etc. use services to check for updates or messages because they take up less memory than opening the full app. Android also does not kill services to free space because the intent of them is for background updating, which you don't want to be interrupted in 99% of cases.

Hopefully this helps clear it up a bit more as well.

WRONG! The system is never designed to close out your launcher to free up memory. This si NOT how things worked prior to the update and not how things work on other android phones.

Would you ever expect windows explorer to need to restart after running a progam on your computer? NO you wouldn't. This is an unexpected behavior that is going to turn customers off to your product. If sprint/htc knows what is good for them they'll do right by the people who buy their products and fix this bug.

Android does handle memory in the fashion you described, but never should the launcher be closed so frequently as it gets closed after this update. Once in a blue moon I'd expect. This is a huge user experience issue.

Then I suppose my personal experience with my HTC Hero and Samsung Epic (as well as my friend's HTC EVO 4G and EVO Shift) over the last few years with multiple custom and official ROMs and launchers have resulted in the unusual ability for me to have all of the launchers (both stock and from the Market) crash at one time or another ONLY after using a high memory application.

I have never read anything anywhere that states that launcher apps are exempt from the Android memory management routines. That leads me to believe that they aren't exempt, and my personal experience backs that situation up.

As for Windows, that is completely unrelated. Android is not related to Windows at all. If anything you could make a tenuous connection to Linux since Android does use a linux kernel, but Windows is a bit of a stretch. Especially when you start talking about newer versions like Vista and Windows 7 which degrade desktop geraphics and performance when gaming or doing other intensive tasks to increase available memory and performance (primarily by disabling Aero).

Journeyman

6/20 - HTC EVO Maintenance Release - Android 2.3 (4.24.651.1)

halcyoncmdr134 wrote:

BRNDN84 wrote:

halcyoncmdr134 wrote:

This represents how Android is designed to work. Large memory-use applications are going to be closed by the OS when the memory is needed elsewhere. If you aren't using your homescreen (i.e. Sense) at the time then it isn't needed and Android will close it to free space for what you are using (in this case Google Earth). When you then close Google Earth, Sense will load back into memory because you are going back to your homescreen. To you it will look like it crashed and is restarting, in actuality it is how the system is designed to work. If Sense did not close out in the background then there wouldn't be enough room for Google Earth to load and you would get an error message, decreased functionality or overall slower speed instead. The only way to fix this is to have more memory in the phone, which in turn brings up the price of the phones, and potentially the physical size of the phone if they can't fit it all in the same configuration.

Depending on whatever else you may have loaded recently Android prioritizes applications in memory. Things you have used more recently are going to be lower on the kill list than things you haven't used for 5 hours. If everything that hasn't been used recently doesn't free up enough space though, it will instead close out something more recent to free the space. This may be Sense itself depending on whatever else you have going. You also have things like services that run cosntantly in the background that actually help in this case because the app doesn;t need to be open for it. Email, Facebook, etc. use services to check for updates or messages because they take up less memory than opening the full app. Android also does not kill services to free space because the intent of them is for background updating, which you don't want to be interrupted in 99% of cases.

Hopefully this helps clear it up a bit more as well.

WRONG! The system is never designed to close out your launcher to free up memory. This si NOT how things worked prior to the update and not how things work on other android phones.

Would you ever expect windows explorer to need to restart after running a progam on your computer? NO you wouldn't. This is an unexpected behavior that is going to turn customers off to your product. If sprint/htc knows what is good for them they'll do right by the people who buy their products and fix this bug.

Android does handle memory in the fashion you described, but never should the launcher be closed so frequently as it gets closed after this update. Once in a blue moon I'd expect. This is a huge user experience issue.

Then I suppose my personal experience with my HTC Hero and Samsung Epic (as well as my friend's HTC EVO 4G and EVO Shift) over the last few years with multiple custom and official ROMs and launchers have resulted in the unusual ability for me to have all of the launchers (both stock and from the Market) crash at one time or another ONLY after using a high memory application.

I have never read anything anywhere that states that launcher apps are exempt from the Android memory management routines. That leads me to believe that they aren't exempt, and my personal experience backs that situation up.

As for Windows, that is completely unrelated. Android is not related to Windows at all. If anything you could make a tenuous connection to Linux since Android does use a linux kernel, but Windows is a bit of a stretch. Especially when you start talking about newer versions like Vista and Windows 7 which degrade desktop geraphics and performance when gaming or doing other intensive tasks to increase available memory and performance (primarily by disabling Aero).

How are they not related? They're both popular operating systems that the majority of device users in their respective categories are familiar with. Don't go off on a tangent to try to poke holes in my argument. It's an unexpected behavior. No one expects explorer to restart constantly, just as they wouldn't expect the launcher on their phone to do it.

I see you also skipped ver the point where i said i'd expect it to happen once in a blue moon, not multiple times a day. You seem to have a short memory, as this issue only cropped up AFTER the update.

I don't need your phone history either, whatever you experienced is up to you to report to whomever baked your rom or whoever manufactured your phone.

Fact is, the launcher should rarely, IF EVER be removed from memory. It's the most important piece of software on the phone, having it constantly need to be reloaded is definitely unintended. I have never had weatherbug or juicedefender unloaded from memory during these events, leading me to believe sense isn't being properly prioritized.

I don't even know if i should bother explaining this to you after your weird aero tangent...

Master

6/20 - HTC EVO Maintenance Release - Android 2.3 (4.24.651.1)

Begin wall-o-text:

I'm not saying it isn't an issue that started happening after the update. I'm explaining how Android handles memory management. It's quite possible and I would say extremely likely that the reason why it is happening is because the new Sense interface is a lot larger than the old one, and so it takes up more memory, hence it is getting closed out. It could be prioritized incorrectly, it may not be. The fact of the matter is the only ones who would know are HTC, and they definitely aren't saying anything official, and any frontline rep at whatever company you talk to will have no idea about it, so it is pointless trying to ask them, anything they would say that is more complex than "it does this, or that" would most likely be made up.

My phone history is relevant because it does cover a larger base of use than just the situation at hand. I have seen this exact same symptom on other platforms over a larger period of time. It is not isolated to this phone and this update necessarily.

As for weatherbug and juicedefender... how large are those applications? I guarantee you HTC Sense is larger. Android prioritizes based on a number of criteria, including the size of the application that is being loaded currently and how much memory is needed to make room for it. Weatherbug and Juicedefender may not free up enough room so they are left alone because closing them to free up memory would do nothing, so it won't waste time doing that.

Bringing up windows in the first place was going on a tangent, they aren't related other than them both being operating systems. It doesn't matter if they are both popular, they are completely different architectures. You could say the same thing about X server failing in Linux, but that even isn't a good example because x server isn't required at all, you can run linux entirely in the command line if you want. Every operating systems operated in a different manner for the user interface. On a phone it makes sense to have the home screen close out if you need the memory for a larger application since the aopplications all run full screen, there are no "windows" being used like in a desktop operating system environment. Trying to compare a mobile platform to a desktop platform is going to be a bad comparison no matter how you look at it.

I don't need an explanation on this. I understand how Windows, OS X, Linux, Android, Windows Mobile and Windows Phone all handle memory allocation. I understand how performance is related to free memory (which isn't a good indication to use) and available memory (actually how much memory can be used at a given time, a much better indicator). I understand the difference between an actively running application and one that is stored in memory waiting to be used but can be removed if needed (how modern operating systems, including Android, work). I understand much more than the average Customer Service Rep or Tech Support Rep you would call in to at any company would, because I actually like learning about it and understanding how it works. The average person you call and talk to at a company is there for one reason, it is a job that pays. Most call center reps aren't passionate, and there is extremely high turnover in that industry because call centers aren't a fun place to be. There is a reason most of the time when you call companies they sound liek they are reading a script, they are. They don't actually understand how the thing they are talking about works, so they rely on that script.

Journeyman

6/20 - HTC EVO Maintenance Release - Android 2.3 (4.24.651.1)

Won't bother quoting that rambling 5 paragraph essay above, but you lose this argment for the sheer fact that we don't have the "new sense" what we have is a couple refinements to sense 1.0. Are you telling me that the flip clock flipping now takes up too much memory for the phone to handle?

I don't even understand why you're arguing, are you saying you enjoy sense reloading constantly? Is that a good user experience for you? If so I don't understand your comments. Just be happy that your phone reloads your launcher constantly now the way you like it!

You obviously still don't understand my windows analogy, i thought it was pretty simple. Windows explorer is analogous to sense. It's the GUI for the operating system. It doesn't need to be complicated by the fact that they're different platforms and operate differently under the hood, the user experience is generally expected to be similar, and that is that the GUI be stable and allowed to stay in memory at all times.

Why the most used piece of software on the phone is bumped out of memory is irrelivant, the fact is it shouldn't be, ever, or at the very least should be very rare. Arguing to the contrary of that is pointless and a waste of time.

Journeyman

6/20 - HTC EVO Maintenance Release - Android 2.3 (4.24.651.1)

ROBYN_5 wrote:

ROBYN_5 wrote:

davidjameslucas wrote:

Hey Robyn, my service manager finally did a factory reset.  He can now connect, but, you're right, he can't connect his phonebook.  I took his phone and tried it on several different vehicles.  A lot of GM vehicles don't import the phonebooks anyway, but the Terrain is one that does.  It actually has the best Bluetooth system that GM offers.  It's actually better than some of the Cadillacs.  There's definitely a problem with importing the phonebook, the question is, will they ever fix it?  It has to be a Sprint / HTC fix because you know GM isn't going to touch it.

David, glad your service mgr has his BT working again. My phonebook worked fine before the update. I'm afraid to allow it and mess my BT up again. But, everytime I get into my car it wants to connect...drives me crazy! GM shouldn't have to fix this problem, it's not their problem. It's Sprint/HTC's to fix. But, I'm not holding my breathe! I think I'm going to Sprint today and finally update to EVO 3D. I've been sitting on an update and from the reviews the phone sounds really good. At this point, the only problem I'm having with my EVO is the Speak to Text. But, there's times I really want that option. It's the driving of the car (road noise) that messes it up. When I slow down or stop the car, don't do anything different with the air, Speak to Text works. So, it has to be the faster speed/road noise.

Well, to all those wondering if jumping to the EVO 3D is a better option? I did. And, NOT HAPPY with it. The 3D is more narrow, the swype is so tiny it's hard to use. The ringers are so low you can't hear a call. Some of my games don't work because the size of the phone is not the same as the 4G. The size of email listing, etc. is so much smaller (I have it on Jumbo). Much harder to read. I could go on with my disappointment over this phone. I want to go back to my EVO 4G, but, stupid me, did a BuyBack at the store at the time of purchase. Will NEVER do that again! I can't get it back. They said I could use my upgrade to purchase another EVO 4G...right! That doesn't make me feel real good. So, this morning I bought one on eBay (yes, I did!). When it comes next week I'll return the EVO 3D and have my upgrade re-instated. I'd rather deal with the Speak to Text not working in a higher speed running car and not being able to allow my Contacts to connect to Bluetooth than use my upgrade for this poor example of a new EVO. Maybe one of these years, HTC will come out with a new, interesting phone!

Just hope I don't end up back here with more issues than I had on my last EVO 4G...LOL!!!

Now that I've had the EVO 3d for a few days, it's really growing on me. Plus, as I keep reading, and remembering, all the problems with the gingerbread update, I'm thinking more and more about sticking with a "real" Gingerbread phone. My Speak to Text works while driving, and allowing my phonebook to link to Bluetooth is not an issue.

There are three new phones coming out soon, one being Motorola Photon. Does anyone here think this would be a better choice than our "troubled" EVO 4g or the new EVO 3d???

Journeyman

6/20 - HTC EVO Maintenance Release - Android 2.3 (4.24.651.1)

Robyn, maybe you should just stick with whatever phone you have for now? This update is a new one, and it will require a period of time to be straightened out (most likely, hopefully). What is that magical length of time? I do not know, but I do know that when I have gotten angry with a product (several times) in the past, spazzed out, and jumped right into buying one or two more of something thinking it was going to be better...I was soooo sorry I did so every time. If you are now the owner of an Evo 3D, and you are getting used to it, then stick with it for a couple of years. What are you going to do with the eBay Evo 4G you bought though? Every one of these phones, old or new, will be missing something we like or would like, or they will have quirks we hate as well as those we love. There is an expression my mom uses all the time..."Don't throw the baby out with the bath water" which applies to my Evo 4G. I am P I S S E D that my wireless N does not work now, but I still like my phone overall, so I am not going to go wasting money on a phone that would only be 1 year newer than my current one and uses the same operating system. I am also not about to give Sprint the satisfaction of me upgrading only one year after I bought my Evo 4G. Sprint can bite me on that one. Sooner or later, Gingerbread will be rooted, and I will root my phone and never allow another Sprint update again. Problem solved. Sprint wil not back me into a corner and force me to buy another phone though...I will be darned if they do.

Journeyman

6/20 - HTC EVO Maintenance Release - Android 2.3 (4.24.651.1)

Halcyoncmdr134....I just wanted to say that I am less than p,eased with Sprint's BS right now, but YOUR discussions of the OS and memory management made great sense to me. I appreciated your insights. As a Windows, Linux and mobile OS user, I understood perfectly where you were going with your explanations. I may not like the outcome of how Gingerbread is operating right now, but your explanation certainly made sense to me. Cheers!

Journeyman E_
Journeyman

6/20 - HTC EVO Maintenance Release - Android 2.3 (4.24.651.1)

Will N support return at all? I dont see how a major feature as this would be taken away

Highlighted
Journeyman

Re: 6/20 - HTC EVO Maintenance Release - Android 2.3 (4.24.651.1)

ROBYN_5 wrote:

Now that I've had the EVO 3d for a few days, it's really growing on  me. Plus, as I keep reading, and remembering, all the problems with the  gingerbread update, I'm thinking more and more about sticking with a  "real" Gingerbread phone. My Speak to Text works while driving, and  allowing my phonebook to link to Bluetooth is not an issue.

There  are three new phones coming out soon, one being Motorola Photon. Does  anyone here think this would be a better choice than our "troubled" EVO  4g or the new EVO 3d???

Hi ROBYN_5, the techs at my local Sprint Store 'suggested' that I upgrade my phone from an HTC Hero to an HTC EVO 4G in March if I were to reap the full benefits of Android 2.2. So I did. 4 months later, I'm already having gripes with this stripped down version of Gingerbread, and we're talking BARE BONES Gingerbread, and what does the Sprint techs 'suggest' to me? "We suggest you try upgrading your hardware to the HTC EVO 3D." What????? Your suggestion was identical to the suggestion you gave me 4 months ago and now I'm stuck with this EVO 4G for another 8 months! Far as I'm concerned, I'm done with getting the next best thing. I did the same when I first bought an iPod. Rather than getting the latest and greatest thing, I'm still using the same iPod I bought 3 years ago. Same with the EVO 4G. At this point, I'm just grateful that I can make calls, text and get emails. All the other janky gripes and misfires is pretty much stuff you have to live with unless you root your phone. Shame on Sprint customer service. Suggesting to upgrade to a newer phone is just as bad as a person going to a mechanic stating his/her car has some engine trouble and the only to fix is to just buy a newer car. Great.

Journeyman

Re: 6/20 - HTC EVO Maintenance Release - Android 2.3 (4.24.651.1)

I have to agree with BRNDN84 - the launcher should not restart.  If it's a product of memory management in 2.3, then HTC needs to dig a little deeper to figure out how to avoid the problem, or else give us a way to opt out of Sense without rooting the phone.  The Windows comparison is spot-on - you could make the same comparison for KDE if you don't like Explorer - if the shell dies you have a brick until it restarts.  If it's not a technical bug it's clearly a user experience problem.

Seems to me that if we can't even agree within the forum, it's much less likely that anyone at Sprint/HTC will care to address it.

Journeyman

6/20 - HTC EVO Maintenance Release - Android 2.3 (4.24.651.1)

>>- Unable to stream media thru some applications after updating to 3.70

I actually see opposite effect, my phone was streaming directions from Navigator to my bluetooth speaker but now it only routes phone audio, i reported this to helpdesk at HTC and rep said, do hard reset and it may fix it, but does not gurantee. my speakers (TWo, both have A2DP, both sold on Sprint site/store, motorola and sprint bluetooth speakers) are no almost useless till this is fixed.

Journeyman

6/20 - HTC EVO Maintenance Release - Android 2.3 (4.24.651.1)

Wicked_Girl wrote:

Robyn, maybe you should just stick with whatever phone you have for now? This update is a new one, and it will require a period of time to be straightened out (most likely, hopefully). What is that magical length of time? I do not know, but I do know that when I have gotten angry with a product (several times) in the past, spazzed out, and jumped right into buying one or two more of something thinking it was going to be better...I was soooo sorry I did so every time. If you are now the owner of an Evo 3D, and you are getting used to it, then stick with it for a couple of years. What are you going to do with the eBay Evo 4G you bought though? Every one of these phones, old or new, will be missing something we like or would like, or they will have quirks we hate as well as those we love. There is an expression my mom uses all the time..."Don't throw the baby out with the bath water" which applies to my Evo 4G. I am P I S S E D that my wireless N does not work now, but I still like my phone overall, so I am not going to go wasting money on a phone that would only be 1 year newer than my current one and uses the same operating system. I am also not about to give Sprint the satisfaction of me upgrading only one year after I bought my Evo 4G. Sprint can bite me on that one. Sooner or later, Gingerbread will be rooted, and I will root my phone and never allow another Sprint update again. Problem solved. Sprint wil not back me into a corner and force me to buy another phone though...I will be darned if they do.

I know what you're saying, Wicked_Girl. If I hadn't had an upgrade sitting there, I would have just stuck with my EVO 4g until I could move on. Plus, I got $150 BuyBack on the EVO 4g. So, when I thought about it, $49 more to get out of this messed up EVO 4g, I went for it. I was happy when I got my Bluetooth working on my 4g. But, I don't think the Speak to Text will ever be fixed! After having the EVO 3d and being able to use the Speak to Text, and how great it is to use while driving, I'm MORE FURIOUS about all the problems with the gingerbread update on our EVOs. But, when the ebay EVO 4g comes in today, I will be returning the 3d and taking my time to decide what phone I want. There's also talk about Samsung Galaxy S II, called Within, coming out. I'm not sure I want to stick with ANY EVO phones. And, when an update comes along, I will be so hesitant to do it. I'll probably just sit back and wait to see what all the problems will be.

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