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Anyone else having a problem with GPS lock?

Journeyman

Re: Anyone else having a problem with GPS lock?

012 -

Thanks for the info! I've performed the steps outlined.  I'll actually have a need to use the navigation on Saturday.  I'll see how it goes.

Thanks,

Joe

Journeyman

Re: Anyone else having a problem with GPS lock?

Well, it does not work perfectly for me.  Initial GPS startup (cold start) takes my Epic 30 under ideal conditions a minimum of 30 seconds and could take as much as 5 minutes (with a network connection.)  After initial startup, as long as I'm in the same place, it will start in about 10 seconds.  My Evo takes on average four to five seconds and worst case scenario is never more than about 25 seconds (if it's going to get a lock at all, aka, indoors.)  Also, the Evo is much more sensative, it will lock while I'm sitting on my couch in five seconds and position me very accuratly.  In the same location, the Epic will almost never get a lock, and if it does it will show me near my house, but not nearly as accurate as the Evo.  Same situation while driving.

Also, I do not use "Use Wireless Networks" on the Epic because it uses too much battery.  On the Evo, I can use it without noticeable additional battery drain.  I'm not sure why that is, but I suspect it is connected to the general radio problems on the Epic.  Ex: 3G on the Epic uses at least three times more power than on the Evo and I usually get 20% worse SNR on the Epic (I'll see -91 on the Epic with -69 on the Evo.)

Journeyman

Re: Anyone else having a problem with GPS lock?

One thing I am having an issue with my Epic Andoid 2.1 phone which my friend with Froyo on his EVO doesn't have is with the GPS operating separate from the phone.  What I mean is this... my friend and I were on a Cruise with others and his EVO GPS worked with apps like GPS Status and GPS Speed without being on WiFi or the Sprint network (we were in the Mediterranean),  My phone (the Epic) when trying to use those apps with the GPS turned on all had the flashing satellite dish like it was searching for satellites, but would act like it never found them.  Worked on the Evo with Froyo, but not the Epic.  Did Sprint lock the phone (Epic) down so that the GPS ONLY WORKS when on the Sprint network?  Is it a Froyo thing????  Should be able to use the GPS separate with separate apps.

Journeyman

Re: Anyone else having a problem with GPS lock?

jlapenta1 wrote:

Well, it does not work perfectly for me.  Initial GPS startup (cold start) takes my Epic 30 under ideal conditions a minimum of 30 seconds and could take as much as 5 minutes (with a network connection.)  After initial startup, as long as I'm in the same place, it will start in about 10 seconds.

I understand your frustration. You are in fact encountering the known bug. But you are misunderstanding it. The fact is what you describe as a "cold" start is not, your Epic is attempting a hot or warm start and you just think it is a cold start. It isn't: it is an attempted hot.warm start with incorrect assistance data in your cache.

Do you understand a cold start on an Epic should be about 10 to 20 seconds if you are within range of any Sprint signal?

Please see the fix linked in the prior post. it has fully fixed the issue for the scores of people reporting your exact issue

Message was edited by: o12

Journeyman

Re: Anyone else having a problem with GPS lock?

I followed the link and made the settings change to my phone.

Enter GPS debug/settings application by typing *#1472365#
click "Setup" tab
click "position mode"
Click "starting mode
Enable "Cold Start"
Back out.

I checked to be sure it stuck and it did.  The situation I explained above is what happens to me AFTER I applied this change.

Thanks for the link, but it did not work for me.  Well, it may have made a difference (difficult to say) but it is not nearly as good as what I'm used to coming from the Evo.

Journeyman

Re: Anyone else having a problem with GPS lock?

RussD wrote:

One thing I am having an issue with my Epic Andoid 2.1 phone which my friend with Froyo on his EVO doesn't have is with the GPS operating separate from the phone.  What I mean is this... my friend and I were on a Cruise with others and his EVO GPS worked with apps like GPS Status and GPS Speed without being on WiFi or the Sprint network (we were in the Mediterranean),  My phone (the Epic) when trying to use those apps with the GPS turned on all had the flashing satellite dish like it was searching for satellites, but would act like it never found them.  Worked on the Evo with Froyo, but not the Epic.  Did Sprint lock the phone (Epic) down so that the GPS ONLY WORKS when on the Sprint network?  Is it a Froyo thing????  Should be able to use the GPS separate with separate apps.

NO it is not an Android version thing.

Your test is if Epic has "Standalone GPS" in addition to "aGPS." This is the ability to pull the same assistance data (almanac and ephemris), albeit more slowly,  from the satellites as one would pull from networks via a data connection in aGPS This is unknown, although it would be a nasty shock if it doesn't, as competing devices do. If you attempted this test (fully out of any CDMA range with wifi off) for 30 minutes, with clear view of sky, while  not moving, and received no fix that would be an indication that Epic does not have Standalone mode capability.

It is very rare deficiency if current smartphone don't have both GPS modes and capability, aGPS and Standalone GPS (in addition to the third, non-GPS. mode, tower based location, enabled by "use wireless networks")

In Standalone GSP there are four methods of start:

Hot start: all current valid ephemeris and almanac in cache, GSP receiver turned on in same position as turned off less than one hour (approx) before

Warm Start. Valid almanac in cache, some current empheris

Cold start: no ephemeris (30 seconds to one minute to start under excellent GPS conditions)

Factory start: GPS device has no almanac or almanac from another region of the globe in its cache. (12 to 15 minutes under excellent conditions to start, maybe more)

(movement matters and if you interrupt your download of this information from the satellites by passing under a branch or introducing new multipath downlaod will have to start again)

Here would be the liekly causes of no standalone GPS:

1) intentional removal of the feature. This was the probably the case with the Sprint Palm 800w as it vestiges of Verizon coding, and even logs were in its firmware, it was probably originally made for Verizon, not accepted by Verizon and sprint bought the production. Verizon has a history of "walled garden" crippling of features that don't pass through its networks, and pockets, and had previously attempted to keep users from using non premium fee GPS functions on their other devices)

2) a software bug, missing driver. this might be the case and if identified might be, or might never be, remedied.

3) reception hardware that is simply inadequate to work as Standalone GPS.

So with your testing, and confirmation from a few others we would know. Standalone GPS is of course important feature on any smartphone since it is very likely users will want to use any number of the daily increasing applications while traveling even if their device doesn't have a voice or data connection while overseas or in rural areas. You might for example want to location tag your photos, perhaps of an old family home in Sicily, something you cant do with a normal camera, but which you can do with any properly working smartphone, or preload google maps and use your smartphone as a walking navigation device, etc. Or you may wish to install one of the third party navigation programs that is not voice and data connection dependent to use in areas where there is no sprint coverage.

Since you may have been on a  moving ship I conder your test a data point. I will be testing mine overseas in about 7 weeks and it better work.

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Journeyman

Re: Anyone else having a problem with GPS lock?

jlapenta1 wrote:

I followed the link and made the settings change to my phone.

Enter GPS debug/settings application by typing *#1472365#
click "Setup" tab
click "position mode"
Click "starting mode
Enable "Cold Start"
Back out.

I checked to be sure it stuck and it did.  The situation I explained above is what happens to me AFTER I applied this change.

Thanks for the link, but it did not work for me.  Well, it may have made a difference (difficult to say) but it is not nearly as good as what I'm used to coming from the Evo.

OK. I can only suggest that your particullar Epic itself maybe defective. It happens.

Journeyman

Re: Anyone else having a problem with GPS lock?

I have tried the fix and it didn't work.  I am currently out of the country and my wife has her phone with me and same thing, neither phone will pull up any satellites using GPS TEST (the app).  My friends EVO fired up the app and had five satellites from our window.  I know it should do standalone GPS, but still looking for a solution.  Did the fix on one, not the other, and both still have the same results.

Journeyman

Re: Anyone else having a problem with GPS lock?

RussD wrote:

I have tried the fix and it didn't work.  I am currently out of the country and my wife has her phone with me and same thing, neither phone will pull up any satellites using GPS TEST (the app).

Russ, did your read the notes on the fix as posted? you cannot use the fix  out of the country. It say specifically to return it to default if you are out of the country from the same menu set..

The fix works 100% -- aa long as you are in Sprint range..

Journeyman

Re: Anyone else having a problem with GPS lock?

"The fix works 100% -- aa long as you are in Sprint range.."

Well I guess it depends on the definition of "fix".  But I can tell you that the Evo GPS works as I would expect a GPS to work and the Epic does NOT (even after this fix.)  I just tried it on my friends Epic and his is reacting the same as mine.  Perhaps we both have defective units?  I'll head out to the Sprint store later and try a few more.

Journeyman

Re: Anyone else having a problem with GPS lock?

apenta1 wrote:

Well I guess it depends on the definition of "fix".  But I can tell you that the Evo GPS works as I
would expect a GPS to work and the Epic does NOT (even after this fix.)  I just tried it on my f
riends Epic and his is reacting the same as mine.  Perhaps we both have defective units?
I'll head out to the Sprint store later and try a few more.

Don't bother, I and  I think most here don't find your posts credible. I find they contradictory. You already know a cold start fixes it.* You have already  claimed to have tested "100 Epics" in 10 states. I don't believe that at all. I also don't believe you have tested the fix. I think you have some need to find fundamental flaws in the Epic, as opposed to find, advocate and disseminate fixes. You also claim your GPS works after a system flush from reboot, which is indeed a cold start.

If  you dump your GPS NMAE log (I use astra logging) with and without the fix a couple of days  before and after you will see what is going on with cache refresh and tha tis why expert users have documented it as a fix

Iindeed your prior post shows you observed it on your own device. cold start creates the identical situation with the GPS cache as your boot, without rebooting.

jlapenta1 wrote:


GPS only works after a reboot.  At some random time after reboot, the GPS will stop working.

It will "see" the sat's but will not lock.  It is easier to recreate this by using WIFI for a while

(of course you should use WIFI if you can because 3G upload is capped at 150k.)


The only thing "Use Wireless Networks" does for me is drain the battery, it does not resolve this situation.

and what is this: credible? 100 epics? sure.

jlapenta1 wrote:

I've been to over a dozen Sprint stores and tested and have tested nearly 100 Epics.  I've traveled

the country and have been to 10 cities in 10 different states.

Message was edited by: o12

Journeyman

Re: Anyone else having a problem with GPS lock?

o12,

As with all of your posts, this one did not help me either.  If you don't have the problem, why are you in this thread?  You say that you guarantee (100%) a fix and you are wrong!  I guess I appreciate your effort to "help" but it didn't help everyone

.
You pulled your quote of what I said from the 3G upload speed thread.  I travel for work and am often in three different cities every week (more if you only count airports).  While traveling, I've stopped in to over a dozen Sprint stores testing the demo units and any employee units in the store.  I also work with a lot (thousands) of technical people that all use smartphones.    I guess I'm honored by your interest in me, but it is a little creepy (I bet that's not the first time you've been called creepy. ;-)  Whether you believe me or not makes no difference, when everyone was debating the slow upload speed, I was out proving it.  Oh and by the way, I did not test the GPS on all those phones and never claimed to, but I have tested it on many.

Your personal attack on me is your way of compensating for something that's missing in your life and for that I am sorry for you.

Message was edited by: PleaseFixTheEpic

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