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2.1 update: Wireless network location broken w/Sprint AIRAVE

Journeyman

Re: 2.1 update: Wireless network location broken w/Sprint AIRAVE

friedenm wrote:

. This is a pain due to the fact that all location based apps are broken now.

That isn't true at all.

If you are using GPS satellites for your location it works fine. The problem is if you are only using the mobile network, then the Airave reports you at an incorrect location.

So the fix is quite simple...enable GPS satellites when using a location based service or turn off the Airave/move out of range of the Airave.

Journeyman

Re: 2.1 update: Wireless network location broken w/Sprint AIRAVE

Yes, because I'm outside with a clear view of the sky all day and I want to completely mis-lead everyone. You caught me.

You are completely missing the point of aGPS and where it's value lies.

Journeyman

Re: 2.1 update: Wireless network location broken w/Sprint AIRAVE

I'm fairly confident that the Airave does not report an incorrect location, given that on other phones (including other Samsung Moment's running android 1.5), the network reported position is exactly right, down to within a few feet.

Suggesting using GPS as the fix is completely ridiculous. The point of Airave is to provide service where there's poor reception -- commonly within a building. Within a building you can't get a GPS fix, even if you've got one of the Moment's that doesn't have the weak GPS chip.

friedenm, glad to hear they acknowledged the bug. Did they provide any kind of bug# ? I'm debating whether it's worthwhile to go through and report the problem also, and if there's an existing bug# to point to it would probably speed things up.

Journeyman

Re: 2.1 update: Wireless network location broken w/Sprint AIRAVE


friedenm wrote:

Yes, because I'm outside with a clear view of the sky all day and I want to completely mis-lead everyone. You caught me.

You are completely missing the point of aGPS and where it's value lies.

When I am outside the GPS on my Moment can pinpoint me with about 20ft (6m) accuracy. If I am not near my Airave and am only using the network and no GPS for location features, it locates me within about a mile or two (the location of tower my phone is on). I'm not sure I expect anything better when I am telling my phone not to look at satellites at all.

aGPS is only valuable when you do not have a clear view of the sky or when satellite signals are degraded. Using wireless network only for location (not in conjunction with GPS satellites) is not aGPS. INSIDE my house, with my Airave on and the location feature set to use GPS satellites AND the wireless network, my location is perfectly accurate. It only becomes inaccurate when I turn off the satellite feature.

Are you saying that if you are not near an Airave, your GPS location is still off by more than 2 miles when using satellites AND wireless network for your locational information? If so, you shouldn't be posting in a thread about issues with the network location and the Airave.

Message was edited by: UFLG8R

Message was edited by: UFLG8R

Journeyman

Re: 2.1 update: Wireless network location broken w/Sprint AIRAVE

The problem is when near an Airave. Then all location based apps break. Unfortunately, lots of apps these days use location in at least some way now, and behave funny if they can't get a location response at all. This is worse than just being 2 miles off -- it simply returns NO location. If it was just 2 miles off, most apps would mostly function as they'd at least have the right city to go off of.  Going away from the Airave is not a solution, as it is being used for a reason.

Journeyman

Re: 2.1 update: Wireless network location broken w/Sprint AIRAVE

jshrieve81 wrote:

The problem is when near an Airave. Then all location based apps break. Unfortunately, lots of apps these days use location in at least some way now, and behave funny if they can't get a location response at all. This is worse than just being 2 miles off -- it simply returns NO location. If it was just 2 miles off, most apps would mostly function as they'd at least have the right city to go off of.  Going away from the Airave is not a solution, as it is being used for a reason.

So then your issue is totally different. Your phone is returning no location.  My phone returns an inaccurate location (15 miles off) using the Airave + wireless network for location. My phone returns a precise location using Airave + wireless network + GPS satellite for location.

Message was edited by: UFLG8R

Journeyman

Re: 2.1 update: Wireless network location broken w/Sprint AIRAVE

jshrieve81 wrote:

I'm fairly confident that the Airave does not report an incorrect location, given that on other phones (including other Samsung Moment's running android 1.5), the network reported position is exactly right, down to within a few feet.

Suggesting using GPS as the fix is completely ridiculous. The point of Airave is to provide service where there's poor reception -- commonly within a building. Within a building you can't get a GPS fix, even if you've got one of the Moment's that doesn't have the weak GPS chip.

friedenm, glad to hear they acknowledged the bug. Did they provide any kind of bug# ? I'm debating whether it's worthwhile to go through and report the problem also, and if there's an existing bug# to point to it would probably speed things up.

I don't think anyone suggested the Airave is reporting an incorrect GPS location. The problem is clearly with how 2.1 is interpreting the Airave result since the issue also affects Hero's using 2.1. But don't forget that the Airave itself requires a GPS signal to work.  So if the Airave works, it is likely you can get the GPS on your phone to work too, though I do realize the Airave comes with an optional-use very long GPS antenna.

Sprint's signal sucks in my house, but I have no problem getting a very accurate GPS lock inside my house. My situation may be unique, but I doubt it...again...the Airave needs a GPS fix to work, so if the Airave can get it, so can the phone. At least that's how it works for me.

Message was edited by: UFLG8R

Journeyman

Re: 2.1 update: Wireless network location broken w/Sprint AIRAVE

jshrieve81 wrote:

friedenm, glad to hear they acknowledged the bug. Did they provide any kind of bug# ? I'm debating whether it's worthwhile to go through and report the problem also, and if there's an existing bug# to point to it would probably speed things up.

No, I did not get a bug number. I should have requested one to make sure that I wasn't getting the boilerplate "it'll be fixed in the next software release" response.

Journeyman

Re: 2.1 update: Wireless network location broken w/Sprint AIRAVE

friedenm wrote:

jshrieve81 wrote:

friedenm, glad to hear they acknowledged the bug. Did they provide any kind of bug# ? I'm debating whether it's worthwhile to go through and report the problem also, and if there's an existing bug# to point to it would probably speed things up.

No, I did not get a bug number. I should have requested one to make sure that I wasn't getting the boilerplate "it'll be fixed in the next software release" response.

Knowing Sprint, that's exactly what you were getting.

Journeyman

Re: 2.1 update: Wireless network location broken w/Sprint AIRAVE

My most recent experience tells me that perceptions may vary strongly depending on the individual phone.

My Airave gets a GPS lock (positioned in the window) but it takes a while -- there's partial blockage by a metal overhang from above, and some buildings around.  My Moment on the other hand, rarely is able to get a lock pressed against the same window, let alone anywhere else in my home (which the Airave does cover the full extnet of). Even left out on my balcony, I've seen times where the Moment's GPS couldn't lock even after 30 minutes. As you can imagine, this meant most of the time I couldn't get any position information at home (without turning off my airave, then it's 2 miles or so off), even if I wanted to always be pressed up against the window in one room of my home.

I'd read some discussions where people suspected that there was a large batch of early Moments with a bad GPS sensor. I was never sure if it was real or just placebo, but now I'm sure it's real. I just had my Moment replaced today by Sprint, and the new one's GPS is waaaaay better. Previously, in an open field, reaquiring lock after recently having a lock could take 25+ seconds. Using the GPS Test app, none of the satellites ever had better than low 20s signal strength, and most in the teens.

With the new phone, I'm seeing strength in the 20s and 30s, and more significantly, it finds the satellites within a few seconds. Moreover, it now sees 9 satellites pressed against the window (locking within a few seconds), and even better, it actually sees 8 from my coffee table, where in 100% of previous tests, it saw 0. I still never see better than 30 meter reported accuracy, though. Keep in mind there's also another floor above me.

So at least in my case, I can finally get a GPS lock in the house, giving me a workaround for the broken network location w/Airave situation. Before the phone replacement was forced to rely on network location. I didn't take it to Sprint sooner because the GPS typically worked when outside, just a bit on the slow side. I just figured all Moments had somewhat weak but functional GPSes. It wasn't until I compared it with a friend's side-by-side and saw he was able to re-acquire lock in 3 seconds when right next to mine which took 25+ that I knew something was definitely subpar with my particular unit.

A good GPS testing app is "GPS Test" by Chartcross Ltd. It shows numbers of satellites, signal strength of each satellite, etc. It helped quantify what was otherwise hard to judge based on  just lock or no-lock. I'd still like the no-network-location-when-in-range-of-Airave bug fixed, but it's definitely no longer as critical.

Message was edited by: jshrieve81

Message was edited by: jshrieve81

Journeyman

Re: 2.1 update: Wireless network location broken w/Sprint AIRAVE

Over on Howard Forums people are reporting the same issue with the new version of Google Maps on Blackberries that are used on Airaves. I am going to install google maps on my GF's Curve and see what it reports.

Perhaps the issue is less an Android thing than a Google LBS issue with their newest software versions (which are not available to Android devices running 1.5, hence the lack of the issue on them).

Journeyman

Re: 2.1 update: Wireless network location broken w/Sprint AIRAVE

Just confirmed the same behavior on my girlfriend's BB Curve. The Curve reports the same incorrect location information with the Airave turned on. Clearly the problem is with Google's location services on their latest versions of their location based services.

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