Final Update 6DEC10 - switching to Verizon
I have seen that this problem still exists with both of my Moments on the latest software (installed as instructed at the update site). I believe that this problem has not been taken seriously by Sprint or Samsung.
My experience with the current software shows that they are trying to recover from this bad radio state rather than fix it, as evidenced by an unusable radio for up to 10 minutes. Their software recovery method does not always work, even after an hour of leaving the phone to manage itself. A reboot has all but one time fixed it (with the latest software). The one time it didn't work I had to reboot twice. Toggling Wifi can still make this happen.
Whatever the reason (hardware or software), Sprint hasn't handled this problem well. Samsung apparently thought this design problem was acceptable. Given the plethora of Samsung device problems I've heard about for their other phones, I think Samsung has some growth opportunities in the realm of Android phone design, and I am steering clear of them for a while.
I have decided to solve this problem by taking my business to Verizon, after 12 years with Sprint. I will be paying cancellation fees for my contracts and paying for new phones in order to have phone service that meets my expectations (phones that make phone calls!). Up until May of this year I always told people that Sprint has good service (coverage, customer, support) as long as you don't change anything, i.e. it was worth the money.
Unfortunately, I can no longer say that. I won't recommend Sprint anymore. Their policies to retain customers appear to have shifted some time in 2009, and this is actually the second time their device replacement constraints have negatively affected me. It's a different company from my perspective.
Verizon Droid 2 Global and Droid Pro - first week - faster data, (obviously) faster phones, Android 2.2, can use WiFi anytime I want. Finally.
Good luck to all. Hopefully your continuing experience will be better than mine.
Past info from this thread:
Day 2, noticed that the top bar area is showing an X in the signal bars, and the radio is off (phone info shows this). Airplane mode is also periodically marked as enabled, turning it off worked one or two times to re-enable the radio, so I could make phone calls. Usually it does not. Power cycling the phone worked twice, but now it's not working at all. Phone isn't able to make phone calls or do data.
When trying to make a call, it says "To place a call, first turn off Airplane mode.". Going to Settings - Wireless Controls - Airplane mode is not selected (no green arrow). Holding the power button down shows "Airplane mode is OFF".
Service state in Settings - About Phone - Status - Service state - shows "Radio off".
Some others on other forums have run into this as well. Anyone know of a way to resolve this (besides get a new phone)?
Updating the top of this thread 2SEP10 to make it more obvious (like it needs that) -
So it's been 9 months since I highlighted this problem (which to be fair, the above issue started as a normal airplane mode problem but ended up killing the hardware completely). I am now on my 7th Moment (9 total for my family) and they have ALL had this airplane mode problem at least once. My latest phone locked up within an hour of getting it from the store.
In order to bypass the "third party app" generic excuse, when I'm ready to try my luck again, I factory reset my phone, just toggle WiFi, then move around on Google Maps (use data). Every unit locks up, usually within an hour. Then I show up at the store with my phone locked up, loaded exactly the way they gave it to me, and the salesman and I both act shocked that my phone is locked up. Given that I've had so many of these replaced, they're giving me new units as replacements. Appbrain is your friend.
I too have been threatened with a device downgrade (Hero or Intercept) as a reward for paying $500 for two defective phones. It appears that there's no benefit to Sprint to take 4G phones away from people that want to pay for them, as I've called Sprint (normal and retention) and talked to retail salespeople (manager and assistant) and they have assured me that there is absolutely nothing anyone can do to give me a phone that is as good or better than the Moment. Apparently "a 4G phone is too big of a step up" compared to the trouble that I'm having....
Since these replacements are being handled by the manufacturer's warranty, and that's up in another 3 months (for me), I've got a small window to make some decisions. A friend told me that the cost of Verizon's plans are now about par with Sprint's. If I'm going to have to pay for a replacement phone, I might as well try another CDMA carrier after 12 years with Sprint.
Message was edited by: GregNx
Solved! Go to Solution.
I am glad I read your whole post, because I was very upset after your first few paragraphs. Let me state this, none of us who own the Moment "Cheaped out" on this device. I purchased it for $299 for my wife thinking it was an update to a rumor. I bought it for her safety and security, and for the safety of my kids when they ride with her. No, it didn't replace our land line, but allowed us to discount our home service, as we rely many on our cell phones. Last month (this is what got me involved in these forums and in a debate with Sprint) I had to get a hold of my wife because there was an issue with our children at day care. I could not get a hold of her. The phone had locked out. Now it was not an emergency as Hexapus had factiously used to raise awareness, but it was serious enough to were our children were left in limbo for some time until I could get them. Now, if that is my fault for cheaping out (buying a $299 phone and paying $130 a month in service fees) then shame on me. But I don't believe that is the case. I paid good money to secure my family, and this phone is DEFECTIVE and is a liability to anyone who owns it.
I have asked Sprint repeatedly to simply refund me in full for this device, allow me to buy another phone of my choice, and to honor our contractual pricing. They have offered me a $100 credit and the ability to by a new phone at new customer pricing (again allowing them to take my money on the cheap). I find it ridiculous that any of us has to waste time and energy on these forums and fighting with Sprint. All I want is a phone that works properly!
Up until Thursday of last week I was still being refered to Repair Centers. When I finally sent Executive Services the board posting on a maintanence release, I think they finally understood there was no update previously available. When I told them I was filing a claim with the FCC and the BBB, I finally got the settlement offer. We will see where Small Claims gets me next because this customer has had enough!
Your statement "You are not guaranteed to always have coverage" is completely wrong. Contractually, I am guaranteed.
I think we can all agree that the Moment problems could have been handled better by Sprint. Obviously they didn't prioritize solving this radio problem over things like improving Pandora performance, or decreasing the number of options for screen timeout as a battery life "improvement".
Today I had a black screen that I couldn't recover from without pulling the battery. I previously posted about periodic resets, so it sounds like my phone's not doing too well after the full update.
Incidentally I've noticed GPS capability varying all over the spectrum, loosely tied to better Airplane mode problems (good GPS = easy Airplane mode, bad GPS = harder to get into Airplane mode). I have also recently noticed bad screen quality, where the lightest colors of black are brownish. This was not the case in Moments 1-5. So, since Sprint might actually get around to fixing this problem in the next year or so, I might need to speed up swapping out Moments until I find one that hits the trifecta: good GPS, good screen color, and no radio problems. (Oh, and #7 has a loose fit to the sliding mechanism, so when it vibrates, it's really noisy.)
Point of order, I've never heard "toe the line" implying "push boundaries", it almost always implies conformity. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toe_the_line. I don't know where all of that is going, but flame on....
If you're going to be belligerent online, I suggest you stick to normal English.
"Toe the line" means "push boundaries" -- do you really think that Sprint employees should not be pushing company boundaries? Because that is what your post is saying.
Your definition of "Toe the line" seems kinda wierd.
"Toe the line" is an idiomatic expression meaning to conform to a rule or a standard.
abide by, comply, follow - act in accordance with someone's rules, commands, or wishes; "He complied with my instructions"; "You must comply or else!"; "Follow these simple rules"; "abide by the rules"
I'm just wondering where you get the "push boundaries" from "Toe the line". If your going to be a jerk on the internet, I suggest you learn to use a dictonary.
Sounding like you do in an online forum does not really help your personal situation, because you sound like you fit the "irate customer A1" mold. All cell phone companies have outages; all manufacturers ship duds; and it's *our fault* as consumers, because we want the cheapest possible price at the expense of all else. A cell phone is not a replacement for a landline. You are not guaranteed to always have coverage, so relying on cheap commercial cell phone coverage for something that may require 24/7 availability is not a good idea, no matter whether the device is flaky or not.
While I do agree with your statement about "all manufacturers ship duds", I do not agree you statement of "it's *our fault*". Its not "our fault" the phone was not properly tested or is defective. I happen to think I'm your average everyday guy and I DID research for weeks trying to figure out what android cell phone to buy. I did talk several times to the folks at the sprint store about available phones, new phones, and continuing support for phones. I was assured Sprint would not leave me high and dry. Well according to you its all my fault that the phone does not work like it should. Its all "our fault" that for many people, the phone can barely be used for its intended purpose.
If you want a less flaky device, there are many devices to choose from. It seems you'd rather stick with the flaky device and complain online than take a non-flaky device as replacement, so you can't be all that concerned about your wife, now can you? I mean, if the slide-out keyboard and OLED screen is more important than her well-being? You could also chuck the Moment and buy an EVO or Incredible outright for a few hundred dollars -- but your wife's well-being isn't worth that much?
The fact is we paid for a device that is in working order. What we got was a turd with a OLED screen. To sit here and criticize the poster about his choice of cell phone is the most ignorant crap you could say. Like most people I bet he got the phone at a discount for signing a two year contract, and also like most people, THINGS CHANGE. The loss of a job, the diagnosis of an illness, or other sudden medical issues can really affect a budget. I understand it maybe hard to understand but a whole lot of crap can happen in two years, and for some people $100 can be the difference between life and death. For you to pretend to know anything about Hexapus' situation is pure speculation, and does a great disservice to everyone on this forums. I use the phone because I PAID for it. I stick with this phone because DON'T want to drop $500 for a new one. I am on the forums to tell Sprint that I'm not happy with this device. For many others, it may not be an issue of being cheap, it could be an issue cost and the lack of funds. My suggestion, jwatte3, until you walk in another man's shoes, you might want to hold back all your self righteous judgment.
Today, after I did the DI06 update last week, my Moment was acting very sluggish like something was using up the CPU, even when I had closed everything. I reset it and it would get through the boot cycle and come to a black blank screen with the "Home", "Menu", "Back" and Red and Green call buttons lit up. The black screen didn't go away and before I knew it, the phone rebooted itself 2 more times before the same thing happened. I finally pulled the battery and it booted correctly but this is the first time I've encountered this issue since having the phone. I'm guessing the DI06 broke something else on this cursed thing.
Thanks for your critique of my post as well as your commentary on the state of the consumer electronics industry. I can't say much that hasn't already been said at this point (thanks, fellow irate Moment users. You're all A1 in my book!), but just as a friendly piece of advice, you may wish to take the time to better acquaint yourself with your audience before making a post like this in the future. You're just playing to the wrong crowd. I'm sure there's a forum out there somewhere dedicated to happy Moment users (as small as that group may be), but this particular thread is full of "irate customers". In fact, a bit over 80% of people visiting the Moment forums (not just this thread) have had unresolved issues with this unit:
(Why don't you chime in on your experience there, sweetheart?)
I doubt many of them feel it's their own fault for desiring affordability and reliability in the same package...so you might factor that into your decision to post here again. Or not. Flame on.
Message was edited by: hexapus
Re: "toe the line" -- I got my understanding from school, in Europe, 30 years ago, so that goes to show me I should just ignore the ephemera of expression and go straight to the meat of the matter 🙂 Mea culpa.
So: meat of the matter: Sprint has offered a Hero as a replacement for a Moment, which is by and large an adequate substitute, especially if you prefer less flakiness over a slide-out keyboard. That's what my wife uses. I prefer the keyboard, and live with the flakiness.
And if someone has gotten the chance of getting *both* a $100 credit, *and* the chance to buy a new phone at new customer pricing, then that's a pretty nice deal. You have, after all, gotten six months or so of use out of the (flaky) phone.
I think we can all agree that the Moment doesn't actually live up to the hype. Then again, I can count on the fingers of my foot (this "typo" is intentional) the number of times a gadget has lived up to the hype in the last ten years. I still hold true that we, as consumers, as a collective, are to blame for the sorry state of quality control. If cell phones were $1,000, which they were when I got my first in 1991, companies could afford to do real QC. But then the average Joe probably wouldn't have one. So, because the collective of consumers wants cheaper things with more checklist items, and is willing to buy as long as it seems like it works while in the store, then we get our choice of flaky devices with lots of "features" at a really cheap price. (And if you think $299 before discount is not cheap for what amounts to an almost-always-on, almost-always-connected, portable super-computer, then I want to know what future you're from and how you ended up back here 🙂
I'll just chill for a bit, and come next February, on my one-year anniversary, I get to choose a new phone at "new customer" pricing (being the main subscriber on 5 lines of service). Probably won't be a Samsung, though. With luck, they'll actually have rolled out WiMax towers here by then, too -- they're selling the devices, but there's no actual 4G reception yet.
Imagine we're all headed to a concert. We're in line and us Moment users all bought our tickets online, and they weren't cheap. Everyone ahead of us is getting in just fine, but once one of us comes up to the window, there's a problem and none of us get admitted. We didn't get scalped: Ticketmaster had a glitch and recognized none of the tickets. Naturally, we're all a bit livid: Ticketmaster would refund us, but since there's no record of our purchases for the time being, there's nothing to be done until three days from now when charges go through (and the event would obviously be over). Now we're reduced to drunken fistfights and yelling in line. Not only does the venue manager now not want to help us anymore, they want us off the property as soon as possible.
While it's not a perfect analogy (few analogies are ever perfect), it's not hard to figure out why we're upset. There's answers to our problems (sidegrade to Hero or Intercept, but at a reduced cost for a phone with lower specs, upgrade to a 4G handset at full price, or downgrade to a dumbphone and be done with it) but none of us like those choices or we'd have taken them already. Samsung is based in Korea, where all of this R&D work is happening: Sprint can't make Samsung fix their devices any faster (or better) than they are already doing, and putting aside the difficulties from International Law alone in considering such an outcome, recalling the device isn't likely from Samsung... i AGREE that it doesn't work but it's not necessarily exploding in our hands or killing people here.
But we are paying Sprint monthly for service, and all of us do deserve a device that works without Maintenance Releases that are critical for Data Service to function at all. This is a complicated position for all involved.
Fighting with each other over what you've read on Wikipedia, semantics, and who deserves to complain more isn't going to get anyone to listen to us. If anything, it'll help aid the decision of Sprint to start locking and modding threads about the Moment altogether.
I just solved my issues today. I put in a port order with another provider. Here is the way I see it. Sprint sold me a defective device, blamed the defects on me (must be apps), refused to offer any workable solutions (here have a Intercept, Hero, or some 5 year old Blackberry.) No, a downgrade is not a workable solution, usually companies don't downgrade for defects, they upgrade. Samsung STILL refuses to admit there is a problem, although Sprint does.
Additionally, when I signed up with Sprint, I was told of the "wonderful" 3G network they have. Ummm....they only offer EVDO Rev.0 in my area, but failed to mention that. The other providers have offered EVDO Rev.A since 2008.
Also, when I signed up, I was told there would be NO spend limit on my account, then first bill had a Spend limit of $600. Again, Sprint told me that there would be no spend limit on my account AFTER the first bill. Second bill arrived, $600 spend limit. Then Sprint charged me for 2 refurb phones at $275 a piece (one that was in their possession for over 1 month) and shut me off for going over my spend limit. Then my grandmother got deathly ill, and no one could contact me. They finally got me at home, and on the way there I fought with Sprint, who stated that my spend limit would stand, but that my phone would not be shut off again. Well, next day, phone shut off again. BTW it was for $8 over the spend limit, and REMEMBER, they already had one of my refurb phones back for OVER a month ($275.) So, they finally found my phone and credited my account the $275 for one refurb phone. Additionally, Executive Services stated that I could keep the second phone until Samsung sent my phone back...
So, in September, I get a $500+ bill. Again, I was being charged for the refurb and 2 months of service. Samsung had already returned my phone and I had already returned it to Sprint more than a week prior. I refused to pay for the first months bill because of my trouble, so they credit me $103. That brings me down to like $400 (reburb is $275 + $20 tax). I then have to fight with CS, who never resolves the issue, so I call Executive Services. Now my bill is $103 or something.
So I order service from another company and my credit is "authorized" for 7 lines of service (as opposed to sprint's $600 spend limit and 2 lines, credit being thrown at me as the reason. BTW: my ratios are good and I have no late payments on my CR.) I will save $10/month over Sprint for Unlimited data/minutes/texts. And my new provider offers EVDO Rev.A and the Motorola Milestone (AKA: Droid 1), which isn't bleeding edge, but still as fast as Samsung Moment's 800Mhz (ARM 11) at 550 Mhz (Cortex A8).
Sprint has been a comedy of errors, and thankfully now that comedy is over.
Oh, and it's amazing what speakerphone and a digital tape recorder gets, especially since I live in a one party state. I actually had Verizon rep (who I have a lawsuit against, they keep calling trying to collect the ETF they promised to waive, which I also have on tape,) tell me that she didn't authorize me to record her, and I informed her that I don't need her authorization. I think I actually said, "Hun, I live in a one party state, so there is nothing you can do." They haven't called back since then... BACKGROUND: Verizon swallowed up Alltel, then cut the Alltel service area to almost nothing, then required you to either re-up with a more expensive plan and new phone, or pay an ETF. I've recently had 2 companies who know nothing about CS, not that I want to ever talk to CS, only if there is a problem.
BTW: Sprint shows my area as 3G. And technically that is correct 3G refers to 1x, as well as EVDO Rev.0 and EVDO Rev.A. Rev.A is the "high speed" version, not available in my area.
Message was edited by: jdmm72
Take this poll, if your device has experienced the data lockup issue. It's not going to fix anything, but at least Sprint will have some data.
I've officially given up. I rooted my phone and installed a custom rom, and it's WAY better. I'm sure it'll still lock up, as this is a HARDWARE problem, but the Moment hacking community over at SDX has worked out some ways to minimize it. Additionally, I have Live Wallpapers, Wifi tether, my phone runs noticeably faster and smoother, and my battery life has drastically improved. Sprint couldn't do this, and and Sprint couldn't provide me with hardware that wasn't defective.
I will finish out my contract with them (because I'm forced to), but they will never see another dime from me after that. Sprint is the the most irresponsible, obnoxious company I've ever dealt with (and that's saying something!). Everyone I know, everyone I ever discuss phones with, everyone who will listen will hear what a sorry excuse for a company Sprint is. I will make sure I cost them THOUSANDS for the few hundred they "saved" by refusing to fix this glaring problem. I may not bury them myself, but I will continue to throw dirt on their grave by the shovelful. Sprint is evil and horrible and they HATE their customers. Everyone just remember that when it comes time to renew and they offer you something shiny. Sprint hates you.
Yesterday was my first day with a different phone on a different carrier. I now have Motorola Milestone (AKA: non-Verizon Droid.) It runs smooth, didn't lock up, I can use WIFI, it stays responsive. Even though the clock rate is lower, it seems more responsive than my moment did. Also, I had both of them on WIFI for comparison, playing the same youtube video and the moment kept stuttering, while the milestone was smooth. The screen is bigger and brighter(although the viewing angle isn't nearly as good as the moment.) And the phone is thinner.
Best move I've made in a while.