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Sprint Capping Data?

Sprint Product Ambassador

You've seen the rumors and leaked memos.  And the official Sprint answer is, Yes.  We are capping data usage.

Being able to manage our wireless network is a big part of our commitment to providing a great customer experience. But, the use of voice and data roaming by a small minority of customers is generating a disproportionately large level of operating expense for the company. As a result, we need to enforce the existing terms and conditions for phone plans. And, we are placing a limit of 300 MB per month on the amount of data use allowed while roaming off network as well as a 5 GB per month limitation on total wireless data usage for Sprint’s connection and phone as modem plans. This limit is well within the range of what a typical customer would normally use each month.

We are taking extensive efforts to make customers aware of the new limits and give them ample opportunity to change their usage habits before exploring any available options under the terms and conditions. While we are committed to providing a quality user experience for all of our customers, managing our costs is critical for the benefit of all of our customers. We want to continue to offer them compelling and affordable plans and services.

As more details become available about how the cap will work or what you as a customer can do about it, we'll let you know.

Thank you,

Will

113 Comments
Journeyman

Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary - Cite This Source - Share This

Unlimited

Un*lim"it*ed\, a. 1. Not limited; having no bounds; boundless; as, an unlimited expanse of ocean.

2. Undefined; indefinite; not bounded by proper exceptions; as, unlimited terms. "Nothing doth more prevail than unlimited generalities." Hooker.

3. Unconfined; not restrained; unrestricted.

Ascribe not unto God such an unlimited exercise of mercy as may destroy his justice. Rogers.

Unlimited problem (Math.), a problem which is capable of an infinite number of solutions.

Unlimited pump, a kind of deep-well pump placed at the level of the water, and operated from above ground. Un*lim"it*ed*ly, adv. Un*lim"it*ed*ness, n.

Don't call it unlimited anymore...

So much for Dan Hesse paying us lip service before when he talked about "roaming" as the new version of "long distance" charges. Guess his claims that he wasgoing to eliminate it were all just to get us off of his back.

BTW, the claim that Sprint needs to better manage its network is a bunch of garbage. Sprint had a market differentiator by being able to claim true 3G data speeds without limits...and no other network in the US could touch that. Well, so much for that differentiator.

Next, I'll bet Sprint simply dumps Q-chat and opts to sell off Nextel to Cyren Call...and then it'll put itself up for sale to the highest bidder (Alltel, MetroPCS, anyone?).

The only thing that this company seems capable of doing is pissing off its own customers. Man, and to think that I was actually considering extending my Nextel contract, let alone opt to get a Sprint data card. Well, based on these latest moves by Sprint...they can say bu-bye to yet another of those high value Nextel customers that they seem to be trying to fiercely get rid of.

Dumb move, Sprint...dumb move.

Or...as a friend of mine continues to claim...

Nextel. Undone by Sprint.|

Journeyman

glad I just got out of my data card plan!!! I love how Sprint is pushing Sprint TV and Music store and then in the same breath, they say that they need to manage their network better......

Please!! So much for differentiating your self from the competition. First the "Simply (not quite) Everything" plan and now this. What else can Dan Hesse mess up.

Try fixing your customer service. they are a bunch of unknowing robots. If you don't like the answer to a question, just keep calling back until you get someone who actually has a clue.....

Journeyman

So there goes Sprint. Good job.

5 GB! I could use that in 3 days EASY. Glad I was waiting on the card and didn't get one yet.

Good job calculating costs. Try calculating the cost you will incur by loosing all those customers who can leave without the ETF due to contract changes. All the lost potential customers RIGHT AFTER SPRINT STARTED GETTING GREAT PUBLICITY!! Wasnt it just like last week there was an article posted on here praising the broadband service?

ugh.

Journeyman


wengla02 wrote:

You've seen the rumors and leaked memos. And the official Sprint answer is, Yes. We are capping data usage.

Being able to manage our wireless network is a big part of our commitment to providing a great customer experience. But, the use of voice and data roaming by a small minority of customers is generating a disproportionately large level of operating expense for the company. As a result, we need to enforce the existing terms and conditions for phone plans. And, we are placing a limit of 300 MB per month on the amount of data use allowed while roaming off network as well as a 5 GB per month limitation on total wireless data usage for Sprints connection and phone as modem plans. This limit is well within the range of what a typical customer would normally use each month.

We are taking extensive efforts to make customers aware of the new limits and give them ample opportunity to change their usage habits before exploring any available options under the terms and conditions. While we are committed to providing a quality user experience for all of our customers, managing our costs is critical for the benefit of all of our customers. We want to continue to offer them compelling and affordable plans and services.

As more details become available about how the cap will work or what you as a customer can do about it, we'll let you know.

Thank you,

Will


Ok,

1) Can we buy up to get true unlimited? or get the cap raised?

2) will the price decrease? or will separate plans be issued for more bandwidth?

3) I agree with the following poster:

"Don't call it unlimited anymore.... " This is indeed very misleading. Some people . Now I could understand if you were speaking about the print vision or internet via the phone data plans, but for the dedicated data cards? Some businesses and consumers (such as myself) have cancelled their "dsl/cable" to take on your plan as their exclusive access to the internet. This was great for the mobile self-employed or small business. But now with the cap, I don't see any advantage that you'll have over your competitors. Would anyone from sprint care to comment on these statements?


The only justification (if one can even claim it as such) for this capping of data is merely to transition current 3G laptop subscribers over to 4G WiMAX. However, we already know that 4G WiMAX will be just as expensive as 3G unlimited was...and given the limited roll-out of 4G (will it even happen this year?), there's really no incentive to stick with Sprint when it comes to data.

Whether you like the move or not, you have to realize that this isn't going to bode well for Sprint's bottom line (unless lower data revenues are suddenly a good thing).

Journeyman


quasijedi wrote:

Next, I'll bet Sprint and then it'll put itself up for sale to the highest bidder (Alltel, MetroPCS, anyone?).



Ooh... I'd love to see Sprint's infrastructure go to MetroPCS.

But, yeah, I've been trying to decide for a few months between:

1) Get a Cradlepoint router with battery pack, or a Cradlepoint personal hotspot (router with internal battery), and a Sprint card/usb-modem.

2) Wait for T-mobile to deliver 3G, and just tether through them (their data costs are a lot lower than anyone elses).

3) Wait for T-mobile to deliver 3G, and deliver a card/usb-modem that works with a Cradlepoint.

What Sprint has just done is remove #1 from my decision list. I will not become a Sprint customer. If I want a capped data service, I can go with Verizon or AT&T for #1, and those two companies are much more likely to last long enough to complete my 2 year contract. However, I HATE Verizon and AT&T, so I'm not very likely to go down that path. Sprint made my carrier decision for me: I will now go with T-mobile.

What I'm most likely to do now is get a cheap Nokia E62, or maybe get a Nokia E61i, start my T-mobile plan now, and then wait for the Nokia E71 and 3G to be delivered on T-mobile. Then I'll wait to see if T-mobile support shows up at Cradlepoint, and decide between continuing to tether, vs getting the Cradlepoint.

Journeyman

So is this cap just on Phone-As-Modem, and Datacard users?

Thiscap doesn'taffect PowerVision,and Visionusers. Right?


NexTel32708 wrote:

So is this cap just on Phone-As-Modem, and Datacard users?

Thiscap doesn'taffect PowerVision,and Visionusers. Right?


So far, it appears that its primary target is datacard users. However, it will also effect PAM users, and anyone that uses data and doesn't have a Simply Everything or SERO plan. Given Sprint's historic moves of the past, I have little doubt that Sprint will also reword the Simply Everything plans to ony be free for the first 5GB of service, but after that initial 5GB/month, you'll incur overages. Gotta love capitalism, esp when done by what seems (at least so far) to be completely incompetitent people who are being paid $M.

Sprint Product Ambassador


NexTel32708 wrote:

So is this cap just on Phone-As-Modem, and Datacard users?

This cap doesn't affect PowerVision, and Vision users. Right?


That is correct - only PAM and Datacard. Data used on your handset under your Powervision and Vision plan is NOT impacted.

Keep in mind 5 GIGabytes is a huge chunk of data.

Also, this is not an automatic termination; I'm working to get the exact phrasing, but basically it's designed to allow us to roll off the heaviest abusers of the data network. If you hit 5.01 gig one month, you're not going to get ran off If you consistently use over 5 gig, we're going to take interest.

We've handled this concept and communication very poorly; I personally apologise for this, and I'm working to improve the communication.

Will

Journeyman JMC
Journeyman


wengla02 wrote:

But, the use of voice and data roaming by a small minority of customers is generating a disproportionately large level of operating expense for the company. As a result, we need to enforce the existing terms and conditions for phone plans.


Exactly how small is this "small minority of customers" and why couldn't they have been dealt with quietly without a huge fuss being made? Isn't there a term in the service contract that gives Sprint the ability to deny service or similar under reasonable terms?

Journeyman

what a fracked up brain dead decision.

Petition time...

http://forums.buzzaboutwireless.com/baw/forums/messagepage/MobileBroadband/1657

It worked last time (MMS petition apparently has resulted in active development of MMS for PDA...)

Journeyman

Will Sprint honor the unlimited for the rest of the client's term?

My data card will be obsolete if the capping takes effect before the end of my term. Will Sprint give refunds on hardware we bought if that is the case?

Journeyman

from what i can tell, no. As the announcement said they are working on ways to 'communicate the new limits to subscribers' or whatever, which suggests it will be on all current accounts.

I can pretty much guarantee you wont get the purchase price of your modem back unless you bought it less than 30 days ago.

You probably would however get an opportunity to cancel without paying an early termination fee. If they didn't at least offer that, I could see a class action lawsuit happening (as the terms of the agreement have materially changed).

After that if you wanted to take your modem to Verizon that might work. You'd have to get the MSL code for it before you go. Sprint CDMA modems aren't compatible with T-Mobile or AT&T, as Tmo/ATT use GSM/UMTS (UMTS is 3G GSM).

Sprint Product Ambassador


JMC wrote:

wengla02 wrote:

But, the use of voice and data roaming by a small minority of customers is generating a disproportionately large level of operating expense for the company. As a result, we need to enforce the existing terms and conditions for phone plans.


Exactly how small is this "small minority of customers" and why couldn't they have been dealt with quietly without a huge fuss being made? Isn't there a term in the service contract that gives Sprint the ability to deny service or similar under reasonable terms?


Yup - I made that point to the higher ups. I think it would be 'causing material degredation to Sprint's service' or something like that.

Basically, I think we were trying to simply do this quietly on an internal basis. But someone had to go and make a written memo about it, and that ofcourse got leaked.

Made quite a headache over here, belive me!

Journeyman

perhaps, but i think theres a difference.

dealing with it internally would be to analyze which users are using so much data that they are causing disproportionate load on the cell network, then sending them a letter with some suggestions.

Previously as I understand it, a subscriber would only be considered for any sort of overuse action (letter, etc) if they were using a LOT more than 5gb, enough that they were causing a problem on the network in their area. I vaguely remember a few users posting here that they were using 10-15gb+/mo and never had any problems; this was users running aircards through routers for their families.

Implementing a 5gb cap is not a quiet internal fix, it's a major policy change IMHO. And a dumb one at that- Sprint right now needs every last subscriber. Starting policies that will make subs want to leave isn't smart. Subs should only be targeted for any kind of averse action if they are causing a measurable problem in their area.

If sprint's network was overloaded and they had no spectrum to put everybody in, that's another story. But I highly doubt that's the case.

Message Edited by IronHelix on 05-21-2008 08:17 PM

Mr. England, I have to say that this is a headache that Sprint brought about all on its own. And to put "blame" on someone who leaked the information to the public is a poor, but typical Sprint tactic. Simply put, a bad idea is always a bad idea, whether it's ever made public or not.

With that said, I still find it laughable that anyone in management ever thought that this was a "bad idea" since this is the same management that still thinks that forcing Samsung Instinct owners into having to adopt a Simply Everything plan - which could be significantly higher than having a SERO plan - is a good idea. Totally ignorant, but that's Sprint for ya: adopt the absurd and then complain how you're trying to turn around CS while, at the same time, still passing yet more absurd anti-customer policies. So, instead of being "First, Better, Different" like Nextel was, Sprint is perfectly happy (it seems) with being "Anything but first, being worse, and oridinary".

Is it any wonder why this company continues to lose post-paid subscribers?

Message Edited by quasijedi on 05-21-2008 08:41 PM

Journeyman

Oh well, the good news is that this is a "get out of contract free" card.

However, I think there is an important point here that Sprint needs to get right before enforcing the policy, in that Sprint doesn't provide near real-time tracking of data usage like AT&T, T-mobile, VZW. When I login to "My Sprint" to track the usage on my data card I get:

Current Usage Unavailable: We apologize for the inconvenience, but we are unable to display the current usage for Sprint Connection Cards.

So I have no way to know that I'm approaching the 5GB limit during the month and respond by curtailing my usage.

With, Verizon, for example, I can get almost real-time data usage from their website - it will be right within a day or so:

e.g.

Data Used
as of 05/20/08 9:41 PM
1,021.76 KB Used

Message Edited by ratatosk on 05-21-2008 07:59 PM

Journeyman


quasijedi wrote:

Mr. England, I have to say that this is a headache that Sprint brought about all on its own.




I have to agree.

You could call this 'a crackdown on high bandwidth users', or you could call this 'a memo that advises that we will start better enforcing the TOS', but I don't think it's any of those.

Sprint is starting a new policy, a 5GB cap. That policy wasn't in place before. This is a change, and not one for the better.

Journeyman

Since someone over at Sprint is out there with a calcuator calculating the huge expense the minority of users going over 5GB is to the company, they can also calucate my diminished ARPU without having an aircard too. They can keep the data. It's not worth it. And pretty soon, they can keep the service, I won't be using past 2008.

Will, probably the best thing you can do is get the word out to the front line that this is a material change in the contract, and that customers will be expecting to terminate mobile broadband lines and expecting no ETF applied to thier account. The more painful this is to the customer, the higher the frustration will be and yet another sign of Sprint's testament to failing customers.

http://www.engadgetmobile.com/2008/04/03/atandts-unlimited-plan-was-a-gametime-decision/

Your competition doesn't even consider you competition anymore Sprint. I stuck by you, hoped this were getting better, but this is hosed.

Journeyman

Very glad I found this thread. I've been thinking about a datacard, and was shopping on Sprint's site last night. Almost ordered, but thought I'd wait and look at them in the store first.

I can tell you that Sprint's site very clearly and consistently uses the word "unlimited", and never mentions a 5GB cap. Wow - I would have been PO'd if I'd bought first, then seen this.

Thanks all for getting the word out.

Message Edited by willysp on 05-21-2008 08:33 PM

Journeyman

redhatnick- OUCH! Doesn't consider Sprint a 'quality competitor'? wow...


Willysp- in fairness, its a 5gigabyte cap, not 5megabyte. Most users won't use that much, not from basic web and email at least. However doing things like extensive streaming of music/video, big downloads, etc could eat up 5gb. Personally I'm against the very concept of a limit though, I bought it because it's unlimited and that's what has value to me. I value the unlimitedness, and I don't even use 5gb.
I agree though that this is a BIG step backwards in terms of the 'rehabilitation of Sprint'.

Also the change hasn't been made yet. If Sprint continues with this bass-ackwards course of action, the new policies would go into effect in late June (from what I hear).

Journeyman


wengla02 wrote:

NexTel32708 wrote:

So is this cap just on Phone-As-Modem, and Datacard users?

Thiscap doesn'taffect PowerVision,and Visionusers. Right?


That is correct - only PAM and Datacard. Data used on your handset under your Powervision and Vision plan is NOT impacted.

Keep in mind 5 GIGabytes is a huge chunk of data.

Also, this is not an automatic termination; I'm working to get the exact phrasing, but basically it's designed to allow us to roll off the heaviest abusers of the data network. If you hit 5.01 gig one month, you're not going to get ran off If you consistently use over 5 gig, we're going to take interest.

We've handled this concept and communication very poorly; I personally apologise for this, and I'm working to improve the communication.

Will


Will - you ARE joking about 5GB being huge, aren't you?! That's only about 150MB/day - not at all hard to do.

I have:

- 4gb in my camera

- 8gb in my cell phone

- 80gb in my mp3 player

- 160gb in my video player

- 320gb in my portable hard drive

- 1tb in my home RAID server

Message Edited by willysp on 05-21-2008 09:32 PM

Journeyman


IronHelix wrote:
redhatnick- OUCH! Doesn't consider Sprint a 'quality competitor'? wow...


Willysp- in fairness, its a 5gigabyte cap, not 5megabyte. Most users won't use that much, not from basic web and email at least. However doing things like extensive streaming of music/video, big downloads, etc could eat up 5gb. Personally I'm against the very concept of a limit though, I bought it because it's unlimited and that's what has value to me. I value the unlimitedness, and I don't even use 5gb.
I agree though that this is a BIG step backwards in terms of the 'rehabilitation of Sprint'.

Also the change hasn't been made yet. If Sprint continues with this bass-ackwards course of action, the new policies would go into effect in late June (from what I hear).

Oops!! Thanks for catching my typo. I edited my post.

Agreed, most people don't use 5gb. I do sometimes, but not that often. I was thinking about getting a datacard so I could stay connected while on the boat. Won't do it now. Opening my Sprint bill each month is already an 'adventure' - don't need to add something else that would almost certainly get screwed up (I'm happy that my bill has been correct 2 months in a row now)

Journeyman

i think it depends on the usage pattern.

some people use it once a week when they go to starbucks to check their email on saturday morning.
other people have no cable where they live so the datacard is the only source of internet for their 5 member household.
some people are geeks and will make use of the bandwidth for VPNs, streaming media, slingbox, youtube, etc. I am in this category.

some people just don't care, and will leave it hooked up running BitTorrent maxing out his upload 24/7. This guy got Sprint because he got kicked off his cable company after 5 warning letters and 2 phone calls.

The first user will have a real challenge hitting 5gb, they'll have to max the thing out for every second they're at starbucks.
the second user will have no trouble at all, especially once their 3 kids discover youtube and streaming radio. or one of those music subscription services (napster/rhapsody) that let you download as much as you want.
The 3rd user would probably use a fair bit, but will probably have cable and thus not use it all the time. For example, when I use it I make good use of it, but I don't use it much because at home I have faster WiFi and I don't travel much. If I traveled more or had a better laptop (that I took with me more often) I suspect I would average 3-5gb/mo.

I suspect the majority of aircard users are a mix of #1 and #3

But only one of these users, the 4th one, could even remotely be described as abusive.

Sprint has marketed this as 'Mobile Broadband', so they shouldn't be surprised when people use it the same as their home broadband. The fact that most people don't utilizie it isn't an excuse for preventing others from utilizing it.

Message Edited by IronHelix on 05-21-2008 09:56 PM

Journeyman

IronHelix, I fit into your #3. I travel 4 days/week,and would have absolutely no problem hitting 5GB. Wouldn't always, but it would happen.

Your description of 'mobile broadband' is spot on.

I'll never sign up for "unlimited" service that has a "limit" that I could easily hit. Again, just glad I saw this thread before I bought a datacard!

Journeyman

This is so ridiculous. Sprint, you're missing the boat here. Although I'm sure the responses will only be platitudes and corporate speak.

I'll tell you my story, and why this really irks me. Bear with me; because I hope you can learn a bit.

I started with Sprint PCS in 1997. I got signed up on an employee plan before general availability in my area (NJ - I know Sprint Spectrum and other services were already available in other parts of the country).

I stuck with Sprint through all kinds of phases of bad customer service, bad general network performance, and worse.I stuck with them because Sprint was usually innovative, a couple of steps ahead of Verizon and the others, and were always promising they were working on the whole service issue.

I finally had my last straw in 2005. One great instance that year was when I called *2 in Philadelphia to report that I was getting constant dropped calls, and the rep didn't know where "Philadelphia" was. "Could you tell me a bigger city it's next to?" he said. Sprint's classic customer service at it's finest. The very next week I walked into a Sprint store tobuy a new phone, and as the four employees stood in a corner gossiping about their friends and ignoring me, I started wondering why I have been paying so much money toa company that does-not care about its customers-and I was done - I swore never to come back. I cancelled on the spot.

Well, this year - my job changed, and I'm traveling a lot. I live and work on and by the internet. I'd been eyeing broadband cards for about a year - but after trying all 3 of the other big providers - and looking at all the restrictions they had, nothing appealed to me. T-Mobile was slow to the point of being useless. Verizon and AT&T had draconian limits and TOS. Sprint's service looked great.. But, it was Sprint. The company that burned me and basically flipped me off in the face of almost a decade of loyalty.

Then I saw good ol Dan's promises all over the TV and internet that he was working on changing Sprint. That actually got me to call and ask about the service. "No cap? Coverage in this city and that? USB modem that works on Vista 64 and Linux?" Hmm.

April 16th I walked into the same Sprint store where I had been ignored for half an hour, and signed up for "Unlimited" mobile broadband.

May 16th, my trial expired. I was very, very happy with the service! Sprint had won me back. I signed my own father up for unlimited MBB last Friday, extoling its virtues over Verizon. I had gone to Sprint, despite its failings, BECAUSE of the better product, and I was pleased.

Then, 4 days later, I hear this. I feel screwed and scammed. Yes, I know about the TOS. I didn't plan on using P2P and downloading 100gb. But I thought Sprint would be smart enough to at least make their product a better deal than the others - because otherwise, who would buy it? If all the plans are the same, Sprint is crazy if they think people would sign up just because it's Sprint. In fact, guys, you have lost *millions* of customers, me included, in recent years - "because you are Sprint".

You aren't seeing the forest for the trees. Sprint cannot act like Verizon and AT&T. They don't have the luxury. By doing the progressive thing and not following the crowd (good) you differentiated your product from Verizon's and AT&T's by not enforcing this cap when the others did. Therefore, it's only logical that a good portion of your recent customers came to you BECAUSE you had no cap, and thereforethis is likely to piss off more of your customers than it would Verizon or AT&T.

Your product is now NO different than the others, and now you think I'm just going to stick with you guys why? Sure, I probably don't use 5gb in a month. I'm not a super heavy user, but I don't want to be watching the clock.

If you think 5gb is "a huge chunk of data", you're living in another era. Why don't you just come out and say that you don't want to sell this product to savvy power users; that you just want to sell it to the weekend warrior who checks yahoo stocks and doesn't know what a gigabyte is? I understand your network plight and the fact that EVDO is actually a bit of a band-aid until WiMax. However, the least you could do was make your product a bit better. 10gb would have kept me.

As it is now, I will be cancelling as soon as I'm able. Even if I have to pay an ETF. My father got a call today from Verizon asking him to come back. I said take the offer; the're calling back next week, and he will. I'm 50% partner in a small business that has all our lines with T-Mobile; a contract that's up in August that we're going to shop around. Guess who's absolutely off the list.

Fool me once, blah blah. Never again, Sprint. Never again.You will continue to lose customers, because you do not understand your customers.

Journeyman JMC
Journeyman


tcp1 wrote:

Then, 4 days later, I hear this. I feel screwed and scammed. Yes, I know about the TOS. I didn't plan on using P2P and downloading 100gb. But I thought Sprint would be smart enough to at least make their product a better deal than the others - because otherwise, who would buy it? If all the plans are the same, Sprint is crazy if they think people would sign up just because it's Sprint. In fact, guys, you have lost millions of customers, me included, in recent years - "because you are Sprint".

You aren't seeing the forest for the trees. Sprint cannot act like Verizon and AT&T. They don't have the luxury. By doing the progressive thing and not following the crowd (good) you differentiated your product from Verizon's and AT&T's by not enforcing this cap when the others did. Therefore, it's only logical that a good portion of your recent customers came to you BECAUSE you had no cap, and thereforethis is likely to piss off more of your customers than it would Verizon or AT&T.

Your product is now NO different than the others, and now you think I'm just going to stick with you guys why? Sure, I probably don't use 5gb in a month. I'm not a super heavy user, but I don't want to be watching the clock.


I like this section of your post man. I think it conveys the general opinion of people that buy Aircard service.

For example,back in the day when EVDO aircards were taking off, the one thing that stopped my buddy from going to Verizon was when, that's right, the whole 5GB cap fiasco was discovered. What did he do? Went straight to Sprint because everyone at the time was praising of the two EVDO providers Sprint was the only one with unilmited data. As it stands now he's kind of voicing, "Heh, now what?"

Journeyman


willysp wrote:

Will - you ARE joking about 5GB being huge, aren't you?! That's only about 150MB/day - not at all hard to do.

I have:

- 4gb in my camera

- 8gb in my cell phone

- 80gb in my mp3 player

- 160gb in my video player

- 320gb in my portable hard drive

- 1tb in my home RAID server

Message Edited by willysp on 05-21-2008 09:32 PM


You would be seen as a HEAVY user. The average user probably won't hit 100MB/day.

Journeyman


pasteurized wrote:

willysp wrote:

Will - you ARE joking about 5GB being huge, aren't you?! That's only about 150MB/day - not at all hard to do.

I have:

- 4gb in my camera

- 8gb in my cell phone

- 80gb in my mp3 player

- 160gb in my video player

- 320gb in my portable hard drive

- 1tb in my home RAID server

Message Edited by willysp on 05-21-2008 09:32 PM


You would be seen as a HEAVY user. The average user probably won't hit 100MB/day.


Since I already made both of those points myself in prior posts, I certainly agree with your restatement of my points. However, I'm missing the point of your post. Sorry.

Journeyman


pasteurized wrote:

willysp wrote:

Will - you ARE joking about 5GB being huge, aren't you?! That's only about 150MB/day - not at all hard to do.

I have:

- 4gb in my camera

- 8gb in my cell phone

- 80gb in my mp3 player

- 160gb in my video player

- 320gb in my portable hard drive

- 1tb in my home RAID server

Message Edited by willysp on 05-21-2008 09:32 PM


You would be seen as a HEAVY user. The average user probably won't hit 100MB/day.


So again, you're saying that Sprint is only looking for "light" users. I would hardly say he's an "abusive" user. Someone who downloads 200mb a day is not what I think anyone would call an "abusive" user, but that'd put him well over the cap.

The problem is that the tone of this announcement and the general tack that most Sprint reps have been taking in regard to it is that people that download much over 5gb in a month are "abusers". And I know they mentioned the "if you download 5.01gb" crowd, but that's not what we're talking about either.

Most of us who are upset are not 100gb downloaders,and probably will handle with the 5gb on several months out of the year - but I, as well as many others, could see myself going to say, 6-7gb, well over the cap but not exactly insane, with pretty normal usage.

Hell, I just pulled down an archive for a website last night, for work, that was 467mb. Sprint's own SmartView that I pulled down on this laptop the same day was 33mb. Then I had 18mb of windows updates, pulled 4 songs off iTunes for a total of 15mb, and watched a few 30 min videos on hulu.com with a total of 130mb, according to DUMeter. That's 663mb in a very typical day - and not counting my web surfing and e-mail.

Even without the work usage - take out the 467mb, thats 196mb in a day. Add 30mb for regular web surfing and e-mail, a very typical, not heavy usage day gets me to 267mb in a day. For 4 songs, a couple videos, windows updates, web surfing, and some typical downloads. 6.7gb a month. And please don't pull the "Oh, you won't have to do this or that every day" - If it's not one thing, I might need to download another - thats, you know, why I pay for an internet connection.. ???

No gaming.

No P2P.

No "linux distros"

No "warez"

No 24-7 connection

=6.7gb.

And that's WITHOUT the fairly "large" (not really, in the scheme of things) "work" download.

Nevermind if I decided to listen to streaming audio for 30 minutes, or something else completely reasonable.

What's not reasonable is 5gb. I am not an "abusive user", and I don't think I use my connection THAT much heavier than the average person who travels and uses the internet.

So please, stop with the "5gb is huge" and "you are a heavy user" stuff. If Sprint intends the connection to be only used for "occasional, light use" then advertise it as such, and don't say all the great things you can (or should I say can't) do with it.

If I can't use it for the typical day I mentioned above, it isn't worth $60 a month. Nowhere near it.


pasteurized wrote:

You would be seen as a HEAVY user. The average user probably won't hit 100MB/day.


I think the definition of what constitutes a "heavy user" is the problem. Given this day and age of lightning fast entry level laptops and desktops, and high end video graphic cards, terabytes of data streaming left and right, a typical internet user would probably end up downloading and uploading anywhere from 1-50GB in any given month. And that's a typical user. A true HEAVY user would probably be exceeding terabytes of data in a given month.

The point is simple. Unlike AT&T, Verizon, and T-Mobile, Sprint is the ONLY national carrier that is losing customers. Thus, Sprint needs every single edge it can get. It has PTT thanks to Nextel, yet to date it's essentially pissed that advantage away (how many iDEN subs have left without joining Sprint's CDMA again?). Sprint had another advantage in WiMAX and was going to create its own nationwide WiMAX network from the ground up...but that idea has suddenly fizzled away into giving up 49% ownership of the WiMAX network. One of the last differentiators in Sprint's favor was unlimited data, but that is now going to be history as well.

To sum it up, any advantages or "nukes" that Dan Hesse was talking about have been - 1 by 1 - systematically dismantled. This company had a chance to lead. And it is...only it's heading in the opposite direction it should be heading in...after all, it's dead last in CS (getting better? Pu-leez...tell that to your lost subscribers), it's trying to force customers into adopting higher rate plans that don't generally benefit the customer, and now the unlimited broadband is being limited.

I guess the old mantra that people say about Sprint of "We're just happy being 3rd" is true. Whie Nextel was hitting on all cylinders with "Be First, Be Better, Be Different" it looks like Sprint is dead set on changing that mantra to "Be Last, Be Worse, Be just like everyone else". At least that would explain why this company is losing customers faster and faster every quarter.

Journeyman


tcp1 wrote:

If you think 5gb is "a huge chunk of data", you're living in another era. Why don't you just come out and say that you don't want to sell this product to savvy power users; that you just want to sell it to the weekend warrior who checks yahoo stocks and doesn't know what a gigabyte is?




well said. Very well said.

For someone that uses it intermittently, 5gb is 'huge'. For someone that uses it every day, 5gb is easy to hit if they have any fun with it.

Wizard

Well, a week ago I didn't really have any idea how much data usage I had on a regular basis on my laptop (WiFi connected to my home LAN which has cable access to the internet).

Over the past four days I've been running a monitor on both my incoming and outgoing usage.

This is my "normal" usage as just an everyday user, and counts ONLY the usage in and out of my laptop. I've had no downloadable software upgrades for any of my software in that four days, so there have been no sudden massive peaks in my usage during this test.

So, get to the point, you are thinking. OK. My normal daily usage appears to run about 184MB/day down, and 14MB/day up.<br><br>That comes out to roughly 5.5GB/month down, and 420MB/month up <u>EXCLUDING SOFTWARE UPDATES</u> and my normal <u>image and site uploads</u> for this laptop.<br><br>I don't game, I don't 'swap files,' I haven't downloaded any iTunes songs or videos in the last four days, I haven't backed up any of my web sites in the last four days, and I haven't even uploaded my usual quantity of images to my Flickr pages (zero uploads in those four days).<br><br>So, I can see that my normal, monthly usage will very likely top over 5GB/month from my lappy which means the Sprint Datacard I was considering adding to my account is no longer under serious consideration.<br><br>I'm actually surprised. I didn't think I would hit that limit in a month with just my normal usage.<br><br>Heck, I'm retired so there isn't even any business usage there.<br><br>Poor form, Sprint, poor form. Smiley Sad<br><br>

Journeyman

Power User doesn't mean Business User.

An aircard will likely become designed for a heavy internet user but at this time, where wired still wins, it isn't. This is rapidly changing.

A person who is on the go checking emails etc will not use 5GB of data.

A person who is using the aircard as their only connection most likely will.

It isn't yet meant to replace your wired highspeed connection but intended to provide an option for access while travelling.

Journeyman JMC
Journeyman


Tomas wrote:
Well, a week ago I didn't really have any idea how much data usage I had on a regular basis on my laptop (WiFi connected to my home LAN which has cable access to the internet).

Over the past four days I've been running a monitor on both my incoming and outgoing usage.

This is my "normal" usage as just an everyday user, and counts ONLY the usage in and out of my laptop. I've had no downloadable software upgrades for any of my software in that four days, so there have been no sudden massive peaks in my usage during this test.

So, get to the point, you are thinking. OK. My normal daily usage appears to run about 184MB/day down, and 14MB/day up.<br><br>That comes out to roughly 5.5GB/month down, and 420MB/month up <u>EXCLUDING SOFTWARE UPDATES</u> and my normal <u>image and site uploads</u> for this laptop.<br><br>I don't game, I don't 'swap files,' I haven't downloaded any iTunes songs or videos in the last four days, I haven't backed up any of my web sites in the last four days, and I haven't even uploaded my usual quantity of images to my Flickr pages (zero uploads in those four days).<br><br>So, I can see that my normal, monthly usage will very likely top over 5GB/month from my lappy which means the Sprint Datacard I was considering adding to my account is no longer under serious consideration.<br><br>I'm actually surprised. I didn't think I would hit that limit in a month with just my normal usage.<br><br>Heck, I'm retired so there isn't even any business usage there.<br><br>Poor form, Sprint, poor form. Smiley Sad<br><br><hr><p></p><p>Awesome. I love how you took the time to test out your own usage. I wish more people would've looked into it like you did to see the legitimacy of people arguing 5GBas not enough.</p></blockquote>

Journeyman JMC
Journeyman


pasteurized wrote:

Power User doesn't mean Business User.

An aircard will likely become designed for a heavy internet user but at this time, where wired still wins, it isn't. This is rapidly changing.

A person who is on the go checking emails etc will not use 5GB of data.

A person who is using the aircard as their only connection most likely will.

It isn't yet meant to replace your wired highspeed connection but intended to provide an option for access while travelling.


Haha you're acting like people wouldn't want to do extra stuff with their mobile broadband while traveling. You think the business person is just gonna use their laptop for email and low data tasks? Give me a break. Look at how many people in offices use the company's connection to check up on myspace and other internet BS that everyone does.

In any case, if it wasn't meant to replace a wired highspeed connection/treated as one then Sprint should've pulled a Verizon from the first point it started offering EVDO aircard service. You can't blame the user on this one.

Journeyman


pasteurized wrote:

Power User doesn't mean Business User.

An aircard will likely become designed for a heavy internet user but at this time, where wired still wins, it isn't. This is rapidly changing.

A person who is on the go checking emails etc will not use 5GB of data.

A person who is using the aircard as their only connection most likely will.

It isn't yet meant to replace your wired highspeed connection but intended to provide an option for access while travelling.


Wait a minute.

I'm getting tired of all this claptrap about what it's "intended for". It seems as Sprint lamely defends this decision, the definition of what the service is "intended for" is being more and more narrowly defined.

Are you saying that the service is only for Business users? And there are very specific intents on what Sprint thinks you should do with the service?

Funny, I didn't see any of that in the ads, and I certainly wasn't advised of that when I signed up. The TOS doesn't even say that.

Sprint, stop blaming the customer. You guys just do NOT get it, and I don't think you ever will.

This service is "intended for" whatever the customer decides it is "intended for", within reasonable limits of the TOS. Not Sprint.

THIS is the unmitigated gall of Sprint that everyone is getting annoyed at; even the mention of an announcement "allowing users time to change their habits."

Please, STOP saying this change is somehow on the shoulders of the customers, and caused by them. It isn't. Sprint is changing the capabilities of the service, period. Stop talking about "heavy users" and "abusive users". It's not about that, that is a *bleep* smokescreen, and you guys know it. It's about monetization of usage, and Sprint figured "Hell, everyone else is doing it, so we can squeeze out a few nickels by doing it too."

Sprint Mobile Broadband was never marketed, sold, nor agreed upon by users to be "intended" as an "occasional use service" for things like "checking e-mail and a few websites". Verizon specifically states their connection is not to be used in lieu of a primary connection, sprint does not.

"Specific Terms & Restrictions On Using Data Services
In addition to the rules for using all of our other Services, unless we identify the Service or Device you have selected as specifically intended for that purpose (for example, wireless routers, Data Link, etc.), you cant use our data Services: (1) with server devices or host computer applications, or other systems that drive continuous heavy traffic or data sessions; and (2) as a substitute or backup for private lines or frame relay connections. We reserve the right to limit or suspend any heavy, continuous data usage that adversely impacts our network performance or hinders access to our network. If your Services include unlimited web or data access, you also cant use your Device as a modem for computers or other equipment, unless we identify the Service or Device you have selected as specifically intended for that purpose (for example, with "phone as modem" plans, Sprint Mobile Broadband card plans, wireless router plans, etc.)."

(And no, a cable modem or DSL is not a "private line"; you guys should know industry parlance - they're talking about point to point connections - as they mention it in the same breath as frame relay)

I see nothing about business. I see nothing about frequency of use. I see nothing about e-mail.

I do see things about negatively impacting the network.

Fine, if I am, notify me. If not, stop pretending this isn't just a way to meter usage OR save on expanding network capacity.

There is no way normal use going to 6-7gb is "abuse" of the network. The 5gb number you guys are using is not based on any type of research or survey, it's just what the other guys are doing, or, in other words, what you could get away with.

Instead of blaming me, tell me one reason I should stay with Sprint over Verizon or AT&T now. One reason. What makes your service better?

Funny, in some places, supposed "competitors" aligning services and prices to be exactly the same would be called illegal collusion. Yet Sprint in its endless customer unfriendliness blames us, says the people who use their service most (and DONT abuse) and are the best word-of-mouth asset are the reason for the change, and tells us we are wrong to be upset because we mistook the intent of the service all along.

Gee, thanks. Revolutionizing communications, indeed.

Journeyman

One other thing that really floors me and proves that Sprint is disingenuous is that this whole thing could have been avoided by setting a 10GB limit vs 5GB.

That would:

  • Get rid of true abusers
  • Differentiate Sprint's product, by offering twice what Verizon does - something you could use in advertising
  • Not annoy your customers so much
  • Show Sprint's intentions to be more customer-focused
  • Give even annoyed users a reason to stick around

Sounds win-win.. Or is Sprint's network really so fragile and shoddy that 5gb won't kill it, but 10gb will?

Show your true colors, Sprint.. Communicate with your customers. Isnt' that what this blog's all about?

If Sprint were to have limited the cap at 10GB or higher, at least the backlash wouldn't appear to be as bad, but there would still be a backlash. I, on principle alone, would be against any limitation. If you claim your network is as good (if not better) than your competition, then back it up. Don't provide us with the same ceiling limits as the competition, provide a far higher ceiling...or better yet, no ceiling at all.

If you ask me, Sprint has officially announced that they're run by complete morons and idiots. To use a psychological comparison, the schizophrenics are running the asylum!

And here I thought Sprint had some balls and was going to actually take on the competition. Nope. Let's face it folks, while people like England are trying to be reasonable, the people that call the shots at Sprint have actually given up long ago (pre-merger, if you ask me) and have decided that the company would go down, and they did everything that they could to take Nextel down with them. Well done, morons. Well done.

Guess we'll all just have to become Verizon or AT&T users now...ah well...good ridence to Sprint...too **bleep** bad I was stupid enough to update a phone and instigate a 1 year renewal. At least I'm not paying for data services.

Oh...and another thing...

If Sprint never initially intended for their wireless data service to be a substitute for DSL or cable, then why does the D-A-M-N service cost as much (and, in some cases, way more) than cable or DSL? Give me a break. With all of the local wifi hotspots that a person has at their disposal for free, why would anyone bother to pay Sprint $59.99/month for 5GB/month worth of data???? Just go to your local Panera Bread store, and use it until your heart's content. Or, set up your home with wifi.

Either way, the fact that Sprint is trying to somehow justify putting on these limitations is laughable, at best. I mean, seriously...either your supposedly superior CDMA EVDO network can't handle the traffic which is forcing you to throttle down the service

OR

You're simply using this entire thing as an excuse so that you can charge probably a good 90% of your data subscribers an overage fee of some sort.

Either way, it's a sign that current management is completely disconnected with the customers that it is allegedly trying to serve. Here's a suggestion for Hesse: QUIT or announce you're putting up a FOR SALE sign on SprintNextel already.

Journeyman

Totally agreed, Dejan.

Sprint's recent silence on this has been deafening.

I'm sure our next update will be an insert in our bills.


Let's just hope they let the CSR's know about the waiving of the ETF beforehand.

Journeyman

A limit anywhere below 100gb a month is not unlimited and is not true to what Sprint is trying to advertise. I say 100gb, because that is insane, if not impossible.

I can't even imaging using 100GB on one computer in a month.

10GB, 20GB, 30GB, if Sprint wants to appeal to business customers, I believe these business customers need more bandwidth than the regular user! Downloading and uploading charts and informational files all the time, maybe a publicist with his pictures everyday. Maybe CNN's reporters need to upload their interviews no matter where they are in the country. CAN'T!

100GB, on the other hand. To me, if you want to use that, you would need to get a business tier unlimited plan or something.

Journeyman

I love when people just assume things. Love it.

Not 1 time did I or anyone blame the customer.

Also services are designed for certain types of uses, this is what determines the number of minutes in a plan/the number of messages in a texting plan. This is DETERMINED BY THE CARRIER AND NOT THE CUSTOMER. I wasn't speaking about what is actually done, but what the design of the service was allowing for.

It isn't meant for a person who is going to live online. It simply isn't. You will find this true but very quickly changing. The mentality is that a wireless connection is not going to be a primary connection therefore will not be used as heavily as such.

Now do I actually agree with capping? No I actually don't. Just trying to prevent more irrational hatred of Sprint, geuss I won't bother. Seems people would rather jump to conclusions.

Wizard

Just one comment on all the demands for there to be no limits (as opposed to reasonable limits):<br><br>The bandwidth available to customers is strictly limited by physics. Sprint has a limited assignment of RF bandwidth available to it, controlled by the FCC, and if the usage by customers tries to exceed what the available RF bandwidth can handle, it just flat won't be handled. There is no magic wand to wave to allow the strictly limited bandwidth available to Sprint to suddenly handle twice the load, nor is additional bandwidth available to them by simply "buying more" from the FCC. The spectrum is already pretty solidly in use.<br><br>About the only way to increase bandwidth a noticeable amount would be to start sub-dividing the existing cell sites and putting up more towers with smaller RF footprints, but even that has its practical limits, especially in urban areas where the number of customers demanding huge bags of bandwidth in a very small area can once again exceed physical limits with today's technologies.<br><br>In no case can any company legitimately offer unlimited (infinite bandwidth) service - it just cannot happen.<br><br>Until customers understand that, and understand that the laws of physics are not something you can avoid, the wails of anguish over having their access to wireless bandwidth limited will continue.<br><br>Now, the real question is what is the minimum acceptable bandwidth limit to customers. If the individual bandwidth demanded times the number of customers exceeds what the legally available spectrum can handle either some will go without service, or everyone's service will suffer, or the companies will have to limit the number of contracts for service they allow.<br><br>When the companies were first selling these services, the bandwidth available to the customers was, essentially, "unlimited" because at the then current data speeds it was impossible for the very limited number of customers to overload the cell sites in most cases. Nowdays, with faster data speeds, and vastly more customers sharing the same physically limited RF spectrum, the limitations are becoming obvious.<br><br>The biggest problem here is actually the very poor planning of past marketing folks. They were selling something that NO carrier has and no carrier CAN have: Infinite Bandwidth. As usual, the marketeers lies have come home to roost, and finally hit the physical limits that the engineers have been telling them about all along. (Marketeers never listen to engineers, it's a given. I spent a quarter century fighting marketeers and copy writers telling my customers they could have more than we could provide in half the time it would take to provide it and at a price less than our cost. I was always the bad guy who had to come in and tell the customer they had been lied to, and what they were expecting - and had based their plans on - was NOT going to happen because it was not physically possible.)<br><br>Bottom line here is that 5GB/month if probably too little for "Wireless Broadband" in the customer's viewpoint, while at the same time being too much in the engineer's viewpoint given the physical limitations and the growing number of users.<br><br>Something is going to break (as usual) once again because of the marketing folks selling things they didn't have. Sadly, in this case what may break is the company. Smiley Sad<br><br><a target="_blank" href="http://tijil.org/bio.html">Tom</a><img src="http://tijil.org/tom_icon.gif"><hr><br><br>(Excuse the tpyos - I provide them at no extra cost to increase your problem solving skills...)<br>

Journeyman

Totally understandable.

5GB limit, is not.

Journeyman

Tom, what you said makes perfect sense - and I understand true "unlimited" isn't realistic. I never thought, even when I had the unlimited plan without the cap, that I could truly download 24/7 at full speed no matter what without raising Sprint's ire.

As an amateur extra licensee and plenty of experience in both computer science and digital communications, I appreciate what you're saying.

However, my argument with Sprint is the blanket "5gb fits all" idea. It's the lazy way out, and it'll hurt people it shouldn't - and make Sprint look bad.

If I'm the only one on a tower in the middle of nowhere when traveling, I shouldn't have to worry about consumption.

In a busy metro area, I could understand it.

There are tools available - throttling, analyzing usage on a case-by-case basis, the concept of peak / off peak times - that can make this more fair and make the plan better.

However, Sprint took the easy and lazy way out.

"Unlimited" data between 9pm-8am would be great for me, personally. I'd also be quite fine if my speed got cut in half during a peak time on a busy metro area site.

What I don't like is arbitrary limits, pulled out of thin air, that I need to keep an eye on in the course of going about my day and doing my work - under the threat of termination or exorbitant charges.

The facts of the network notwithstanding - Sprint did this badly. Yes, VZ and ATT did the same thing - but like I said in my original post, the fact that Sprint held out means that more of their customers CAME for the better plan, and therefore more of Sprint's customers will be pissed at this.

I'm annoyed at the lack of intelligence by Sprint to come up with something better than the old VZ/ATT stalwarts, and that they took the lazy, easy, no-brain way out, and then continue to pretend they're faultless. That speaks volumes about a company - and those volumes don't say good things about a company in the shape Sprint is in.

Journeyman

Another easy thing Sprint could have done.. They could have let users carry over unused allowances to the next month, up to a point. If you used 3gb one month, you'd get 7 the next, carrying over the 2 left over.

This would make sense for a lot of people, too - because I'm sure some people travel more often than others, and I know there are some months where I'll barely use it. You couldn't stack up forever - so you wouldn't end up going hog wild over one weekend, but say you could bank 10gb in addition to your monthly 5 allowance. That'd encourage people to conserve bandwidth, while allowing them a reserve of access when they need it most.

For RV'ers and rural people, this wouldn't work - but I'd guess the problem isn't so much on remote sites as populated ones, is it? That solution is easy too - offer a rural broadband plan, that is only offered outside metropolitan areas. That would also look good for Sprint politically - showing they're working on the abysmal rural broadband situation in this country.

A one hour roundtable or honest suggestion box from consumers would have come up with these ideas and many more. It's a shame Sprint prefers to just actand not think. Boy am I glad I sold out my sprint stock after the merger.

Message Edited by tcp1 on 05-22-2008 08:45 PM

Journeyman

Tomas- I understand that bandwidth is limited by the amount of spectrum, type of modulation, and number of users, which creates a hard limit that can't be fixed except by splitting cells. I'm not a ham (maybe someday, looks like fun) but I understand the concept.

Nextel used to have this problem in some areas. Back around when the hybrids were first introduced, iDEN network usage was very high, certain markets were designated 'red markets' and got the hybrid phones first.



My guess is that we are NOWHERE NEAR that limit. I think that's a reasonable guess based on two reasons: 1. bandwidth wasn't a problem last year, and 2. since last year we've lost what, 2 million users?

Put differently- if the network is not overloaded, and then network utilization goes down, it stands to reason that the network continues to be not overloaded.

No, IMHO bandwidth is not a problem. Our subscriber counts are going down not up, and down in huge numbers too. The network is not 'filling up', it's draining.



If there was a bandwidth problem anywhere- I'd implement a throttling mechanism that would work as follows:
all packets would be divided into 4 groups based on the subscriber and the age of the session.
'New' sessions (the first 5-10seconds of a TCP socket) would get higher priority. This speeds web surfing.
Users who have used less data that month get higher priority.

So in short, there are 4 priorities for packets:
1. New sessions from light users
2. New sessions from heavy users
3. Old sessions from light users
4. Old sessions from heavy users.

Result might be that for a download to a light user, it might start out at the full 1500kbit but then drop down to 1000 or 1200kbit after several seconds, a heavy user might start at 1000 and drop down to 700-800.

That's of course only valid for TCP streams. Packets would also be sorted by port/priority- realtime stuff like VoIP, video chat, etc comes first. HTTP/mail/etc comes second, other stuff comes 3rd.

The result would be that everybody gets good speed, but you can still turn down usage of some in order to give a better experience for all the users of a crowded cell.
Note that this would be implemented on a per-cell, as-needed basis. Cells could of course refer users to other (less busy) cells if the user is in range of both, and this sort of thing would only kick in once the cell gets to 90% bandwidth capacity.



as tcp1 said, they took the lazy way out. and IMHO, they are solving a problem that doesn't exist at the expense of creating a new problem where there were only happy customers.

Good job guys.

Wizard

Lot of good points there, but even though the number of users has decreased by 0.5%, I <u>strongly</u> suspect that the data usage has gone up considerably as more bandwidth-hungry services are added, more "smart" phones, and more datacards have been brought on-line instead of simple voice telephones. Data use is climbing, probably at a higher rate than Sprint can afford to respond to right now. Smiley Sad<br><br>Once again, the problems will first show up during the business day in high-density user populations, for example, Manhattan. I suspect there are single buildings in the Financial District that could saturate several cells. (The problem with business services is that 100+ years of telco experience shows that "everyone does everything at the same time" and adjacent cells will likely be at equivalent loads.)<br><br>In more suburban areas, the usage increases usually in the evening. Smiley Happy<br><br>Legitimately, the setting of reasonable limits SHOULD have been done at the very beginning instead of letting the marketing flacks sell "unlimited" bandwidth when such a thing does not realistically exist. Had there been an honest limit up front (with an eye toward the future), the sudden change we are seeing now (which I fully agree is "taking the easy way out" ) wouldn't have been dropped on the public at the worst possible time for the company.<br><br>Good discussion going here. Smiley Happy<br><br><br>Edited to correct the error the forum software creates if a quoted phrase is inside parentheses.<br><br><div class="message-edit-history"><span class="edit-author">Message Edited by Tomas on </span><span class="local-date">05-22-2008</span><span class="local-time"> 11:15 PM</span></div>