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Qchat -vs- VZW PTT

Journeyman

Re: Qchat -vs- VZW PTT


@V_Sprad wrote:

...

Fact is, if Verizon really wants to get PTT over, they need to offer more than the "largest PTT coverage", they are gonna have to offer more phones.

Von


Or, Verizon could just buy theiDEN network and the Nextel namefrom Sprint...

I'm no fan of Verizon, but I do believe that if VZW had bought Nextel instead of Sprint buying it, all of us legacy Nextel subscribers would be much happier than we are today. Not as happy as if Nextel had stayed it's own company and migrated to CDMA and Flarion while maintaining their bulletproof PTT; that would have been the ideal course. But even though VZW is not perfect, at least they are extremely capable and they execute their plans quickly andsuccessfully, as compared to legacy Sprint Corp, which could not find its ownderriere with both hands (even if it hada flashlight, a mirror, a map, and a capable assistant)...

- Nxtl4me

Message Edited by Nxtl4me on 06-14-2009 09:45 AM

Journeyman

Re: Qchat -vs- VZW PTT

I agree with you Next...

Verizon NOT buying Nextel orginally, was just another smart choice by their suits in the know. There is a reason Verizon bought out Altel and not Cingular, and their is a reason AT&T bought Cingular and not Altel. Both companies knew that combining two CDMA or two GSM networks would go a heck of a lot smoother than trying to mix and match networks. Verizon will never buy Nextel now.... The SMART folks at Verizon see the disaster that happens when trying to partner CDMA and IDEN and will avoid it like Oprah avoids salads.

Sprint was/is the only company dumb enough to try and combine 2 completely different nationwide networks.

(All of that means nothing about me saying Verizon needs more than 3 PTT phone model if they are serious about it)

Von

Journeyman

Re: Qchat -vs- VZW PTT

I believe we are forgetting some key points here.

Sprint did NOT buy NEXTEL fortheir iDEN network, but the spectrum they owned in 1.9Ghz (to roll out their own CDMA network) and 2.5Ghz won at auction.

So in a way, yes Sprint was intelligent for buying NEXTEL though it displaces us who liked NEXTEL just as it was for all our DC, VOICE and DATA (WiDEN at the time for a short period) needs. However virtually everything Sprint's management does is counter productive as they don't know how to run a carrier like NEXTEL did.

As a NEXTEL/iDEN/DC user, I am actually a thorn in Sprint's side as they would have loved to dump us years ago, unfortunately that would have cost them a lot since we all use NEXTEL for the DC that cannot be replicated on CDMA (trust me it cannot) and would likely jump ship to Verizon or AT&T (that's how life goes when you are dumped, you don't stick around even if the grass is no greener) and forget all about PTT. Not to mention that we were a third of the subscriber base at that time.

Sprint did what they needed to do to survive, it isn't about us, its about their survival.

If they can get WiMAX (PTT/DC or not unfortunately) deployed quickly with enough coverage to phase iDEN and CDMA out at some point then they may do alright(maybe slow the bleed,but my bet is against WiMAX surpassing LTE once VZW and ATT start rolling it faster then Sprint can get the cash to) then they may have played their cards right.

I personally like iDEN/WiDEN and would love to see it be on its own carrier again (not VZW or ATT) with select data devices (smartphones and such) wielding WiMAX chipsets for Clearwire data being resold through their carrier much as Sprint does today (they will be selling to Comcast and others soon as well). Each metro and surrounding area could have Clearwire WiMAX deployed and carriers could continue with their own single native network. I know, I'm dreaming... But this would be great... Motorola has iDEN upgrades carriers can roll out to stay current already.

Journeyman

Re: Qchat -vs- VZW PTT

I believe there is a lot of misinformation in the forums concerning the pros and cons of each of the wireless carrier's push to talk systems. I keep reading about the latency of Verizon's current PTT offering.

I host a forum for push to talk users at http://direct-connect.net where we have many members using Verizon's service as well as both of Sprint's current offerings (iDEN and QChat.) I personally have active PTT phones on each of the four major PTT networks: Sprint's NDC (QChat,) Nextel (iDEN,) Verizon PTT, and AT&T PTT. Along with our forum members, I have done many tests of each of those carriers' offerings, including side-by-side comparisons of many combinations of those systems.

I went into this venture several years ago after being a Nextel user (fanboy?) for many years. A few years ago, when Verizon first offered a PTT solution, I tried and was very disappointed in that service. However, Verizon's second round of PTT is vastly superior to their first. Surprisingly, Verizon's second generation PTT uses the same software provider's PTT service. They have improved that service in many ways including connection times. The current generation rivals Nextel in connection and volley times. In my side-by-tests, connection times were nearly identical.

Even AT&T's PTT service is now very useable. Connection times are very quick, although my comparisons of AT&T with the other carriers has been less extensive than iDEN/QChat vs VZW.

Both VZW and AT&T have an advantage over Sprint Nextel in that their services include a "presence indicator." A VZW or AT&T PTT user can see a list of their PTT contact's with each user's availability status. Both VZW and AT&T's PTT services are available throughout their networks. Verizon's may be a little faster in their EvDO Rev A areas. However, Verizon's EvDO Rev A coverage is available in most areas, and the service does work with a 1x connection.

Sprint Nextel's biggest advantage is their large user base. In many industries (construction andtransportationas examples) Nextel is how things gets done.

Overall, myopinion based upon my personal experiences is that PTT works very well for each of the major carriers. Each subscribers must determine their own specific needs to decide which is "best" in their own business, family, or group.

Journeyman

Re: Qchat -vs- VZW PTT

Where is my Sprint DC, that's what drive this discussion. 5 phones have been out in more than 40 markets for a year plus but nothing added since August

Journeyman

Re: Qchat -vs- VZW PTT

Where is my Sprint DC, that's what drive this discussion. 5 phones have been out in more than 40 markets for a year plus but nothing added since August

__________________________________________________________________________

Come on Spoonie, you have been here long enough to know Qualcomm was in letigation for almost all of last year. I believe QCHAT was effectively handcuffed by court order during that time. Now that the shackles have been removed, I'd guess Sprints Direct Connect 3g will be making a comeback in the next 6 months or so.

Von

Journeyman

Re: Qchat -vs- VZW PTT

I read the litigation was one reason and cost cutting is another, don't care which it is. What I do know is that with the coming divestitures in iPCS markets Sprint DC will need to be a monster to get those remaining IDEN subs to stay

Journeyman

Re: Qchat -vs- VZW PTT


@AL904 wrote:

Sprint Nextel's biggest advantage is their large user base. In many industries (construction andtransportationas examples) Nextel is how things gets done.

Overall, myopinion based upon my personal experiences is that PTT works very well for each of the major carriers. Each subscribers must determine their own specific needs to decide which is "best" in their own business, family, or group.


(With apologies to Dubspoon for a slight sidetracking of his original post):

AL904: Do you happen to know exactlyhow PTT from VZW, ATT, andQchat behave when the regular cellular network is overloaded, or when the PSTN (public switched telephone network) is overloaded or interrupted,as in local/regional emergencies?

One of the points you failed to raise in your otherwise informative post above is the fact that Nextel's iDEN-based PTT is a separate system running in parallel to the iDEN cellular system, so that when the PSTN is dead or overloaded, iDEN PTT more often than notremains fully functional. Review the history of 9-11, Katrina, etc and you will see that in most cases, Nextel DC remains functional when all other cellular service goes kaput.

While it is true that if electrical power to an iDEN site is interrupted and/or the generator runs out of fuel, and/or if the tower gear itself fails (as in a widlfire over-temperatureshut-down)then even Nextel PTT will stop working. But historically, that is the ONLY way that Nextel PTT fails, i.e. when the tower itself has a shutdown/failure. That is one of the hallmarks ofiDEN-based PTT as Moto implemented for Nextel, and it is a very significant differentiator, one thatmost cellular subscribers are not aware of.

Given your significant experience with all four PTT technologies in the US, can you tell us how PTT from VZW, ATT, and Qchat perform in local or regional emergencies that normally overload the cellular voicecapacity of all carriers?

Thanks,

- Nxtl4me

Journeyman

Re: Qchat -vs- VZW PTT


@Nxtl4me wrote:

@AL904 wrote:

Sprint Nextel's biggest advantage is their large user base. In many industries (construction andtransportationas examples) Nextel is how things gets done.

Overall, myopinion based upon my personal experiences is that PTT works very well for each of the major carriers. Each subscribers must determine their own specific needs to decide which is "best" in their own business, family, or group.


(With apologies to Dubspoon for a slight sidetracking of his original post):

AL904: Do you happen to know exactlyhow PTT from VZW, ATT, andQchat behave when the regular cellular network is overloaded, or when the PSTN (public switched telephone network) is overloaded or interrupted,as in local/regional emergencies?

One of the points you failed to raise in your otherwise informative post above is the fact that Nextel's iDEN-based PTT is a separate system running in parallel to the iDEN cellular system, so that when the PSTN is dead or overloaded, iDEN PTT more often than notremains fully functional. Review the history of 9-11, Katrina, etc and you will see that in most cases, Nextel DC remains functional when all other cellular service goes kaput.


Those are excellent points, Nxtl4me!

I have often wondered the same things. You are right about the iDEN-based PTT running on a separate system, and it offers that advantage in times of emergency. That is a distinct advantage. Another item that I didn't address is Nextel Direct Talk or Moto Talk for off network PTT communications. None of the other carriers offer anything similiar. Of course, Direct Talk has a very limited range (less than a mile, in my tests,) but could be the communication of last resort in extreme emergencies.

As I understand it, AT&T's PTT simply runs on the PSTN. I am fairly sure that in a time of overloaded or down voice circuits, it would suffer the same problems as dialed calls.

VZW's PTT and Sprint's NDC on Sprint (QChat) use their carrier's data networks. I believe, but I'm not sure, that with an overloaded PSTN, they would continue to function like other data services, SMS,for example.I would guess that the PTT data transmissions would get higher priorities than many other data services. Of course, that is assuming that the data networkscontinued to run.

Re: Qchat -vs- VZW PTT


@AL904 wrote:

I have often wondered the same things. You are right about the iDEN-based PTT running on a separate system, and it offers that advantage in times of emergency. That is a distinct advantage. Another item that I didn't address is Nextel Direct Talk or Moto Talk for off network PTT communications. None of the other carriers offer anything similiar. Of course, Direct Talk has a very limited range (less than a mile, in my tests,) but could be the communication of last resort in extreme emergencies.


That actually stands in stark contrast to my experience. When I've used direct talk, I've gotten a range of easily 3 to 4 miles...heck, if I had to guess, I'd even swear my cousin and I at one point were a solid 5 or 5 1/2 miles apart and we had no problem getting in touch using DirectTalk on our respectively. So, I think the difference between your experience and mine may involve the actually geography where the phones were being used. Here in Michigan, the land is fairly flat, so it would make sense that we were able to "maximize" the distance for DirectTalk.

As I understand it, AT&T's PTT simply runs on the PSTN. I am fairly sure that in a time of overloaded or down voice circuits, it would suffer the same problems as dialed calls.

VZW's PTT and Sprint's NDC on Sprint (QChat) use their carrier's data networks. I believe, but I'm not sure, that with an overloaded PSTN, they would continue to function like other data services, SMS,for example.I would guess that the PTT data transmissions would get higher priorities than many other data services. Of course, that is assuming that the data networkscontinued to run.


That is correct. Both Verizon and Sprint offer PTT where PTT becomes prioritized data. So, it makes sense that while voice calls may not go through, a PTT call could. However, in Sprint's case, their network appears to now be overloaded (or very well nearing it) with data users...so if I had to guess which of the two would allow me to actually get a PTT call through, I'd guess Verizon since their network is larger, has a greater EVDO coverage area, and simply does not appear to be as nearly overloaded as Sprint's network appears to be.

Regardless, all else being equal, I'd personally still pick iDEN PTT over any other service, hands down. Though knowing who is available for PTT at any point in time is a VERY appreciated feature.

Highlighted
Journeyman

Re: Qchat -vs- VZW PTT


@quasijedi wrote:

@AL904 wrote:

I have often wondered the same things. You are right about the iDEN-based PTT running on a separate system, and it offers that advantage in times of emergency. That is a distinct advantage. Another item that I didn't address is Nextel Direct Talk or Moto Talk for off network PTT communications. None of the other carriers offer anything similiar. Of course, Direct Talk has a very limited range (less than a mile, in my tests,) but could be the communication of last resort in extreme emergencies.


That actually stands in stark contrast to my experience. When I've used direct talk, I've gotten a range of easily 3 to 4 miles...heck, if I had to guess, I'd even swear my cousin and I at one point were a solid 5 or 5 1/2 miles apart and we had no problem getting in touch using DirectTalk on our respectively. So, I think the difference between your experience and mine may involve the actually geography where the phones were being used. Here in Michigan, the land is fairly flat, so it would make sense that we were able to "maximize" the distance for DirectTalk.

As I understand it, AT&T's PTT simply runs on the PSTN. I am fairly sure that in a time of overloaded or down voice circuits, it would suffer the same problems as dialed calls.

VZW's PTT and Sprint's NDC on Sprint (QChat) use their carrier's data networks. I believe, but I'm not sure, that with an overloaded PSTN, they would continue to function like other data services, SMS,for example.I would guess that the PTT data transmissions would get higher priorities than many other data services. Of course, that is assuming that the data networkscontinued to run.


That is correct. Both Verizon and Sprint offer PTT where PTT becomes prioritized data. So, it makes sense that while voice calls may not go through, a PTT call could. However, in Sprint's case, their network appears to now be overloaded (or very well nearing it) with data users...so if I had to guess which of the two would allow me to actually get a PTT call through, I'd guess Verizon since their network is larger, has a greater EVDO coverage area, and simply does not appear to be as nearly overloaded as Sprint's network appears to be.

Regardless, all else being equal, I'd personally still pick iDEN PTT over any other service, hands down. Though knowing who is available for PTT at any point in time is a VERY appreciated feature.


Sprint's network overloaded? Wonder how that's possible, considering the fact that they are losing users rather than gaining at the moment?

Journeyman

Re: Qchat -vs- VZW PTT


@AL904 wrote:

I believe there is a lot of misinformation in the forums concerning the pros and cons of each of the wireless carrier's push to talk systems. I keep reading about the latency of Verizon's current PTT offering.

I host a forum for push to talk users at http://direct-connect.net where we have many members using Verizon's service as well as both of Sprint's current offerings (iDEN and QChat.) I personally have active PTT phones on each of the four major PTT networks: Sprint's NDC (QChat,) Nextel (iDEN,) Verizon PTT, and AT&T PTT. Along with our forum members, I have done many tests of each of those carriers' offerings, including side-by-side comparisons of many combinations of those systems.

I went into this venture several years ago after being a Nextel user (fanboy?) for many years. A few years ago, when Verizon first offered a PTT solution, I tried and was very disappointed in that service. However, Verizon's second round of PTT is vastly superior to their first. Surprisingly, Verizon's second generation PTT uses the same software provider's PTT service. They have improved that service in many ways including connection times. The current generation rivals Nextel in connection and volley times. In my side-by-tests, connection times were nearly identical.

Even AT&T's PTT service is now very useable. Connection times are very quick, although my comparisons of AT&T with the other carriers has been less extensive than iDEN/QChat vs VZW.

Both VZW and AT&T have an advantage over Sprint Nextel in that their services include a "presence indicator." A VZW or AT&T PTT user can see a list of their PTT contact's with each user's availability status. Both VZW and AT&T's PTT services are available throughout their networks. Verizon's may be a little faster in their EvDO Rev A areas. However, Verizon's EvDO Rev A coverage is available in most areas, and the service does work with a 1x connection.

Sprint Nextel's biggest advantage is their large user base. In many industries (construction andtransportationas examples) Nextel is how things gets done.

Overall, myopinion based upon my personal experiences is that PTT works very well for each of the major carriers. Each subscribers must determine their own specific needs to decide which is "best" in their own business, family, or group.


I have personally used Verizon's PTT service at work, when my company (Proctor & Gamble)was considering switching a while back. I can tell you from my own experience, Verizon's offering sucks. It's slow, inefficient, and the Moto Adventures we were given constantly locked up while on active calls. PTT over CDMA is a bad, bad idea. I recently had the service removed from my wife's Moto Renegade because it was so unreliable and unpredictable.

If a PTT phone is what you want, get a Nextel iDEN phone, or at least a Hybrid. If Verizon or AT&T is what you want, opt for free M2M instead.

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