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Qchat -vs- VZW PTT

Journeyman

Qchat -vs- VZW PTT

Saw the post belowon Phonearena.com, dated 04-17-2009,posted by "Unregistered Guest", andthought it was interesting enough to copy & paste here on BAW.

-Nxtl4me

SOURCE: http://www.phonearena.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11848&page=2(scroll to bottom)

PHONEARENA POST QUOTED IN FULL: (green text isoriginal post by "VZWtrainer", blue is the reply by Unregistered Guest)

"[quote=VZWtrainer;27177]:

1) On 7/21/2008, VZW launched PTT over Rev A, which is far superior to the company's previous offering, which is where this poster obtained their information.

2) Connection speeds listed are incorrect: call latency for VZW PTT is <1 sec

Unregistered Guest: Hmmm, let's actually correct some of the obvious misinformation YOU have provided. I work for VZW and carry a work issued BB Storm and a Moto V750 Adventure, I also have Sprint Nextel as my personal carrier with an HTC Touch Pro and a Moto V950 Renegade. As far as PTT, VZW does not compare to Direct Connect, the call latency on my Adventure is NOT <1 sec, it's more like the OP posted, 1-5 sec, unlike my QChat Renegade where it's truly is <1 sec. Look, there is simply no competition or comparison to Sprint Nextel PTT."

35 REPLIES 35

Re: Qchat -vs- VZW PTT

Simply put, it all boils down to where one is on the Verizon network which determines PTT speeds. If one is in a EVDO rev A location, then Verizon's PTT really is sub-second, just like NDC. However, if a Verizon user is in the EVDO rev 0 region, then it's 1-3 seconds; and if one is in merely a 1xrtt zone, then it's more like 3 to 10 seconds. Contrast that to NDC on Sprint (aka Q-chat) where it is always sub-second so long as it is getting a EVDO rev A signal. No EVDO rev A? No NDC.

So, while NDC on Sprint is more consistent in its operation, the limitation of requiring EVDO rev A can be mildly problematic. BTW, why would a Verizon employee have a Sprint phone?!? Let alone 2 phones?!? Seems stupid if you ask me. It's like working for GM or Chrysler, and owning a Honda.

Journeyman

Re: Qchat -vs- VZW PTT


@quasijedi wrote:

Simply put, it all boils down to where one is on the Verizon network which determines PTT speeds. If one is in a EVDO rev A location, then Verizon's PTT really is sub-second, just like NDC. However, if a Verizon user is in the EVDO rev 0 region, then it's 1-3 seconds; and if one is in merely a 1xrtt zone, then it's more like 3 to 10 seconds. Contrast that to NDC on Sprint (aka Q-chat) where it is always sub-second so long as it is getting a EVDO rev A signal. No EVDO rev A? No NDC.

So, while NDC on Sprint is more consistent in its operation, the limitation of requiring EVDO rev A can be mildly problematic. BTW, why would a Verizon employee have a Sprint phone?!? Let alone 2 phones?!? Seems stupid if you ask me. It's like working for GM or Chrysler, and owning a Honda.


QJ:

You raise good points about how VZW has implemented their PTT. However, based on the Phonearena.composter's description of theirmulti-carrier PTT experiences,I felt thattheir qualifications & experiences spoke for themselves, and I felt it would be interesting to the BAW readers. Just one more bit of data to stir into the mix, as it were.

Not that the Phonearena poster's word is the final word on VZW's PTT,but I thought it legitimate counterpoint, therefor worth sharing.Sorry, but I stand by mythinking that it wasnoteworthy that a VZW employee (a) considers Sprint-Nextel's PTT overall to be superior to VZW's PTT, (b) took the time & effort to share that with the world, and (c) was refuting a dyed-in-the-wool, hard-core VZW fan on a website different from BAW.

You have made the assumption that the Phonearena poster's experience with connection delays on VZWis for the reason you described (i.e. not being in revA territory), and that assumption might or might not be true. There have been manyreports by others that even in revA territory VZW's PTT is not always sub-second, and in fact can at timesbe multiple seconds even in revA territory. Heck, not even Nextel iDEN PTT is ALWAYS sub-second. The overall iDEN average is definitely sub-second, but not in every single case.

BTW,I think your statement that a person is "stupid" to carry a competitor's phone is way out of line. What parts of "free country", "free economy","open-minded" and "not a companyzombie"do you not understand?

I think mostreasonable people in America realizethat there are multiple legitimate reasons that a person can drive a Honda while working for GM, and vice-versa. Likewise, there are multiple, legitimatereasons that a person can (a) carry phones from two different carriers , and (b) there are legitimate reasons that a VZW employee might chooseto carry Sprint-Nextel for his/her personal phone, or vice-versa.

Good thing the people who work at McDonalds don't think like you do, or they could only eat McDonalds food all the time 😞

-Nxtl4me

Re: Qchat -vs- VZW PTT

Nxtl4me, your points are well made. I agree that even iDEN PTT is not 100% sub-second. There have been times when it's been 5 or more seconds before something happened (usually a busy signal bounce back response). And the same could be true in the case of Verizon's PTT in rev A areas. Heck, the same is true with NDC on Sprint too. The point though is that the one Verizon rep (btw, how do we really know that he's a Verizon rep and not a poser?) insisted that PTT on Verizon is never sub-second. I know from personal experience that it very much is sub-second (at least in rev A areas) usually.

As for the "stupid" comment, I did preface it by saying that "if you ask me." While it is a free country and I by no means am saying that one cannot have a Sprint phone, or AT&T, or whatever else, I question WHY would someone do so? If it's because you want and need PTT connectivity, then I suppose that makes sense, since SprintNextel has over 12M (maybe now 13M) PTT users nationwide, whereas Verizon might barely have 200,000. However, if it is for CDMA (non-PTT) use, then I find it hard to believe that a Verizon employee would get a better deal with Sprint than through Verizon itself. Given Verizon's vast coverage superiority, it makes me question two things: 1) is this "THE Network" claim really valid then, or 2) is this guy trying to pull our leg? Neither can be easily answered; we can only speculate.

Still, the point is this: if you work for company A that makes Product 1, and you instead buy Product 1A (which is very similar to Product 1) from company B, then why is that the case? In the automotive world, working for GM and buying a Honda is essentially viewed (and some circles would say rightfully so) as a death blow to your own job security. Why? Because if one worker buys a vehicle from outside the organization, then what if EVERY employee did it? The end result is you may have your Honda, but soon enough you won't have that job at GM and there's no guarantee that Honda will be hiring; so you may find yourself with your Honda, but otherwise unemployed. Same thing here with Verizon. Yes, Verizon is quite healthy (look at their Q1 2009 CC as proof). A few employees here and there having phone service from the competition might make sense for those employees, but ultimately it isn't the healthiest choice for their future in that position with Verizon.

It all boils down to company loyalty. If you don't have enough confidence in your own company's products, then no one else will. So, my question is WHY would he have a Sprint phone instead of a Verizon one; or does he have both? Regardless, the question is stil: WHY?!?

Journeyman

Re: Qchat -vs- VZW PTT


@quasijedi wrote:

...

Still, the point is this: if you work for company A that makes Product 1, and you instead buy Product 1A (which is very similar to Product 1) from company B, then why is that the case? In the automotive world, working for GM and buying a Honda is essentially viewed (and some circles would say rightfully so) as a death blow to your own job security. Why? Because if one worker buys a vehicle from outside the organization, then what if EVERY employee did it? The end result is you may have your Honda, but soon enough you won't have that job at GM and there's no guarantee that Honda will be hiring; so you may find yourself with your Honda, but otherwise unemployed. Same thing here with Verizon. Yes, Verizon is quite healthy (look at their Q1 2009 CC as proof). A few employees here and there having phone service from the competition might make sense for those employees, but ultimately it isn't the healthiest choice for their future in that position with Verizon.

It all boils down to company loyalty. If you don't have enough confidence in your own company's products, then no one else will. So, my question is WHY would he have a Sprint phone instead of a Verizon one; or does he have both? Regardless, the question is stil: WHY?!?


Why would a VZW employeeuse Sprint-Nextel for their personal phone? I can think of a few reasonable scenarios:

1)The VZW employee already had Sprint-Nextel and liked enough about S-N to keep the phone, at least until contract expires.

2) He/she has most of the rest of the family on Sprint-Nextel and didn't want the hassle of porting over the entire family, or some family members refused to go along with the switch to VZW, so it stayed status quo.

3)He/she liveswhere Sprint-Nextel has better native coverage than VZW in that particular area, and doesn't want to deal with roaming issues.

4)He/she was a S-N customerthat initially did not work forVZW, had to take a job with VZW to make ends meet, but doesn't intend to stay with VZW that long, so didn't bother switching.

5) He/she just does not believe in being a totally "company person" and wants to maintain some shred of independence.

6) He/she was asked by VZW at time of hire to keep the existing S-N service, to gather competitive comparisons for Verizon, and ended up actually not liking VZW for whatever reason, so kept their S-N phone.

7) He/she isa contractor, not a full-on VZW employee, and knows the employment is short-term.

😎 He/she is an extremely valuable employee and the benefits to VZW outweigh the relatively minor anomaly that the person had a S-N personal phone when they hired in, so VZW looks the other way.

9) There are particular apps/services on S-N that Verizon doesn't offer or are inferior or would end up costing more even with a VZW company discount.

Note that you could substitute Honda for Sprint-Nextel and GM for VZW and tweak a few wordsin at least3 or 4 ofthe nine scenarios above and theywould still make logicalsense.

-Nxtl4me

Re: Qchat -vs- VZW PTT

Actually, Nxtl4me, I came up with several reasons on my own after I made that "WHY?" post. Anyhow, still...there's a reason why companies offer their own employees discounts / incentives to buy the product/service from their own employer rather than the competition. And, honestly, at this point in time, the original point is most likely now moot.

Journeyman

Re: Qchat -vs- VZW PTT

I will admit though, the Verizon poster/alleged employee did sound like an idiot almost bragging about his 4 active devices (unless I misread).

And I would agree that he is likely talking about the fact that Verizon has enabled DC on any EVDO rev 0, rev A and 1XRTT as opposed to Sprint having a fraction of DC coverage on CDMAto ensure that all users have the fast DC experience by limiting it torevAbut lacks the knowledge to know that is what is happening (by the sounds of it).

I don't know what the right answer is, I would almost like having the ability to use CDMA DC on theroadwherever I have the slightest coverage at whatever speed I can get sometimes much as Verizon has implemented it. Heck with Qchat I wasn't even able to walk into many buildings and use DC.

I am now on iDEN and have that instant DC that I was looking for in more places anyway.

Journeyman

Re: Qchat -vs- VZW PTT


@quasijedi wrote:

Still, the point is this: if you work for company A that makes Product 1, and you instead buy Product 1A (which is very similar to Product 1) from company B, then why is that the case? In the automotive world, working for GM and buying a Honda is essentially viewed (and some circles would say rightfully so) as a death blow to your own job security. Why? Because if one worker buys a vehicle from outside the organization, then what if EVERY employee did it? The end result is you may have your Honda, but soon enough you won't have that job at GM and there's no guarantee that Honda will be hiring; so you may find yourself with your Honda, but otherwise unemployed. Same thing here with Verizon. Yes, Verizon is quite healthy (look at their Q1 2009 CC as proof). A few employees here and there having phone service from the competition might make sense for those employees, but ultimately it isn't the healthiest choice for their future in that position with Verizon.

It all boils down to company loyalty. If you don't have enough confidence in your own company's products, then no one else will. So, my question is WHY would he have a Sprint phone instead of a Verizon one; or does he have both? Regardless, the question is stil: WHY?!?


I could not agree more, we are hurting here in Michigan, and have been the whole time the rest of the country was chugging along!

Journeyman

Re: Qchat -vs- VZW PTT

The main reason Sprint opted to limit QChat to REVA only is because of cross network interoperability. Without REVA, a Nextel DC conversation with a Sprint QChat user would be very problematic. We all know that even with limiting it, there are still some connection issues here and there across the country. Why add to it?

Verizon had the luxury of allowingits system to work no matter the data speed because it's based off of one network rather than two. When you attempt to make two very complicated digital systems work together, it's essential to eliminate as many variables as you can.

This is why Powersource phones were limited to 1900 CDMA rather than making the phone tri-mode. It had nothing really to do with Sprint being "too cheap" to include it. The thinking was that the Hybrids would have enoughbugs (as we all know they did and do), so keeping the phone design and radios as simple as possible, they managed to side-step a lot of potential issues they would have had to deal with in addition to all of the others.

Re: Qchat -vs- VZW PTT

OK...so now Verizon is once again launching a new PTT commercial. Just saw it a few minutes ago actually. Verizon's claims? Largest PTT calling area in the US. And they're right.

Why oh why does Sprint allow Dan Hesse to ruin the very last bit of what he referred to as a "nuke" that this company has?!?

Mr. Hesse: If I had any power or influence with this company, you would be so...as Donald Trump would say...F-I-R-E-D!!!!!

How inept can one man, let alone one management team, really be?!?

Journeyman

Re: Qchat -vs- VZW PTT

quasi - Man of little Sprint faith... THE PRE WILL SAVE US ALL!!!

Direct Connect will soon be a thing of the past. Even though Verizon has next to no PTT phones and Sprint has a huge upper hand in the quality area of PTT and NDC brand recognition they will give it all up for Hesse's next move of stupidity.

His incompetence isn't even mindblowing anymore, its just Dan's way oflosing business.

Wizard

Re: Qchat -vs- VZW PTT

THE PRE WILL SAVE US ALL!!!

I have to wonder about that one, first off, it dosen`t have PTT on it, and i for one wouldn`t even touch it unless it did have PTT. As to the VZW claim of the largest PTT network, okay, they may be the largest, but are they as reliable as good ol` NEXTEL DC? IMO after using NDC for a while i`d have to say that i don`t completely agree with that assessment, as i`ve had nothing but really stellar reliability from NEXTEL DC (i hope it stays that way for a long while :)). Now i will say this, it would be a fun experiment to try out both S/N and VZW`s PTT offering and see just how they stack up. If i had the chance i really would jump at the thought of running such an experiment. N9NRA P.S. theproto, i tried to reach ya on DC recently, you gonna be around tonight, i got something to ask ya. Thanx!

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